Opinions on triggers

[GhostMutt]

OK lets be serious for a few minutes here. I probably shoot more speed events over a year than the next 2 guys put together. I can shoot one every weekend if I want to not counting the major events.
What you want is a trigger with a short reset and a fast lockup time. If you can't shoot a 5 plate string under 1.5s without the trigger locking up you have the wrong trigger (or you can't go that fast and aren't fast enough). Most serious speed shooters using AR type rifles rely on 3-gun triggers to get the job done. Does not matter if it is a single stage (JP + Speedhammer) or a 2 stage (Geissele Super 3Gun, Wilson Competition, AT AR-Gold) or a completely exotic one (Hypertouch 24) all of those will work. The reason is in 3 gun you may need to hose off 30 rounds in under 5 seconds (very rare) or at least know that your rifle will cycle and fire that fast. The most common trigger used is the Geissele S3G or the SD3G if you happen to like a flat trigger. All of the ones I mentioned are used by several big time 3-gun shooters. I currently use either the Geissele S3G or the JP w/Speedhammer. The others I mention are fine also. If you plan on using something else it might seem fine at whatever level you are at but it might not end up that way when you get faster. For instance I used the RRA 2 stage + JP springs early on until I hit that wall at about 1.5-1.6s. The trigger flat failed to reset at a speed I wanted to shoot at. So I went to a gun show where a dealer and custom AR builder I know used to set up a lot of trigger so people could try them out. The S3G was by far the best. I only had to release the trigger about 1/8 inch to get it to fully reset. On the 15-22 its weight with Geissele springs showed 2.5# on my gauge so I went with that. Later after I got into 3-gun I also bought a JP setup to put in my AR .22 and I like that also. Just remember if you buy something now that you know works you only have to cry once. If you buy something that is unknown you might have to replace it down the road.

Thanks, that is excellent info...I am going to research more into both the S3G and the hipertouch 24C plus I just found out Lena Miculek endorses it...haha. I agree with the getting 'ouched' once theorem. Cheers Bro

 

[wbear]

I would recommend a one piece drop in unit. Easier install and the design allows the manufacturer to maintain the desired sear geometry in lowers where the holes are slightly out of tolerance.

I own and have tried these 3 units in my 15-22:
1. AR Gold
2. Wilson Combat TTU
3. CMC

All 3 are fine triggers and are a huge improvement over my polished and lighter springed stock trigger.

I rate the triggers in the order listed above. The AR gold has the same feel as a 1911 pistol trigger, the break and reset are unbelievable. The Wilson is very smooth and the CMC is a great choice if price is a concern.

None of them gave any trouble in the 15-22. Jerry Miculek uses the AR Gold in his personal 15-22 as well as his 3 Gun rifles. I will admit that putting the Gold in my rifle did not make me shoot like him.

 

[photoracer]

Unfortunately none of us shoot like Jerry, although one or two things he has done on Impossible Shots with the 15-22 I can do also. As I understand it his personal 15-22 has a custom Lothar Walther barrel in it too. He is a really nice guy to talk with also. A real down home country boy who is in heaven because he gets to do what he loves for a living.

 

[wbear]

Yes he is a cool fellow! I wish I had a setup like he does on Shootout Lane.
Have you watched his latest video, A Manly Life?
He sleeps in his shooting clothes and keeps his
Pact timer on the night stand. He brushes his teeth with
motor oil and uses Accurate LT-32 instead of mouth wash.

 

[rweller68]

I have the Hipertouch 24c in my 15-22

Simple to install, does not need maintenance or oil, and surprises me every time it breaks. really crisp and consistent, with a super fast reset.

I was concerned about the pins walking out (they are not flush with the receiver) but Terry from Hiperfire assures me they will not.

Picked it up from theshooterssource dot com using a 20% off code and it arrived fast

 

[photoracer]

I would recommend a one piece drop in unit. Easier install and the design allows the manufacturer to maintain the desired sear geometry in lowers where the holes are slightly out of tolerance.

I own and have tried these 3 units in my 15-22:
1. AR Gold
2. Wilson Combat TTU
3. CMC

All 3 are fine triggers and are a huge improvement over my polished and lighter springed stock trigger.

I rate the triggers in the order listed above. The AR gold has the same feel as a 1911 pistol trigger, the break and reset are unbelievable. The Wilson is very smooth and the CMC is a great choice if price is a concern.

None of them gave any trouble in the 15-22. Jerry Miculek uses the AR Gold in his personal 15-22 as well as his 3 Gun rifles. I will admit that putting the Gold in my rifle did not make me shoot like him.

You know I would not have believed that a couple of years a go but now I do. I recently acquired a Mag Systems magnesium alloy lower receiver because it is the lightest lower I have ever weighed, even lower than the polymer ones, and I wanted to put in on my AR-22 to get its weight under 3 lbs. But I tried both my JP and one of my S3G's and the geometry of the holes was just not working. Neither trigger would work because they were interfering with the safety too much. So I am forced as you say to buy a drop in and then do some machining work on a safety to make it all work. I am kind of between either the 3# Timney or the Wilson. I really like the Timney that is in my speed shooting Ruger 10/22 and I found that the last 3 3-Gun Nation Pro Champs all used Timney Competition triggers in their ARs, Keith Garcia, Tommy Thacker, and my friend Greg Jordan. Greg gave me a ringing endorsement of the Timney.

 

[RRich]

Hi GhostMutt,

All I can add to what's been posted already is that I'm more than happy with the 24C in my 15-22, it's a brilliant trigger.
RRich

 

[telero]

Just curious if anyone with a Hiperfire can tell me about the reset force required for the hammer?

In trying to use some lower powered ammo the stock hammer springs seemed to sometimes stop the hammer from resetting. Changing to JP yellow springs helped. CMC and Timney seem to have fairly heavy hammer springs that can't be changed due to the drop in nature of the their trigger systems. Kind of hoping the Hiperfire would work, but haven't had a chance to actually play around with one.

 

[rweller68]

the 24c decimates the 22lr cartridge.. hits very hard. i would have FTF occasionally with the stock trigger/hammer and bulk federal. not a single FTF since installing the 24c.

trigger pull is extremely light, and can be adjusted by three sets of provided springs.

i talked with the owner who makes the 24c and he explained that the 24c acts like a compound bow.. the initial 1/3 cocking point takes a lot of pressure, but then the last 2/3 cocking is quick/easy. not sure if that is what you are asking?

 

[GhostMutt]

the 24c decimates the 22lr cartridge.. hits very hard. i would have FTF occasionally with the stock trigger/hammer and bulk federal. not a single FTF since installing the 24c.

trigger pull is extremely light, and can be adjusted by three sets of provided springs.

i talked with the owner who makes the 24c and he explained that the 24c acts like a compound bow.. the initial 1/3 cocking point takes a lot of pressure, but then the last 2/3 cocking is quick/easy. not sure if that is what you are asking?

The more i hear about the 24c the more i like and the hypershoe thingy? a gimmick or actually a good addition?

 

[rweller68]

hypershoe.. the red thing attached to the trigger?

it's a solid connection to the trigger, no movement

my index finger feels like it lands in the same place each time i touch the trigger.

loving the trigger.. clickBOOMclickBOOMclickBOOM reaaal fast


If anyone is in UTaaaaaaaah and wants to try it let me know

 

[telero]

i talked with the owner who makes the 24c and he explained that the 24c acts like a compound bow.. the initial 1/3 cocking point takes a lot of pressure, but then the last 2/3 cocking is quick/easy. not sure if that is what you are asking?

That is definitely along the lines of what I was asking. I'm still curious if that initial 1/3 takes any more force than a standard hammer. If not, it seems like that might solve the issue I was seeing. If it does take a little more force, I'm wondering if even though the last 2/3 of the cocking is easier, would it have had enough of the inertia robbed to stop the hammer from resetting. From what I was seeing with my problem, the old cartridges were ejecting fine and new cartridges were loading, the hammer just wasn't catching on the disconnector and would follow the bolt closed. It needed just a little more oomph.

 

[photoracer]

You know I would not have believed that a couple of years a go but now I do. I recently acquired a Mag Systems magnesium alloy lower receiver because it is the lightest lower I have ever weighed, even lower than the polymer ones, and I wanted to put in on my AR-22 to get its weight under 3 lbs. But I tried both my JP and one of my S3G's and the geometry of the holes was just not working. Neither trigger would work because they were interfering with the safety too much. So I am forced as you say to buy a drop in and then do some machining work on a safety to make it all work. I am kind of between either the 3# Timney or the Wilson. I really like the Timney that is in my speed shooting Ruger 10/22 and I found that the last 3 3-Gun Nation Pro Champs all used Timney Competition triggers in their ARs, Keith Garcia, Tommy Thacker, and my friend Greg Jordan. Greg gave me a ringing endorsement of the Timney.

As followup I took delivery of a 3# Timney Competition AR drop-in trigger to try and fix the Mag Tac lower. Have to use the MT trigger pins because the pin area is thicker like a polymer lower and they supply much loger pins. But unlike a polymer lower you don't need the lock plate to set the screws into. What I discovered from this is, as I guessed, the safety hole must be slightly off. Since it is going to be .22 only I will not bother to grind one of my safeties to work right now. Trigger does have the short reset and fast lock time required to shoot fast so I will add the Timney to my list of acceptable speed triggers. Will shoot it sometime this weekend to compare it to my current fastest rig, my 10/22 speed rifle. The weight of the AR-22 should now be a little under 3 lbs. even with a 17" barrel. Tim Ubl said he will be sending me the new Taccom carbon fiber barrel sometime in the next week or two. Hoping to get the AR-22 down to 2.75 lbs.

 

[rweller68]

I'm still curious if that initial 1/3 takes any more force than a standard hammer.

yes. the initial 1/3 takes more force than the standard hammer. that is why i contacted Terry with Hiperfire.. to find out if i had installed the trigger improperly (I noticed it took a lot more force to cock at the beginning). That is when he replied back that it works like a compound bow.

 

[ord03]

Don't over look this one. I have been well pleased with it for quite some time.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...national-match-2-stage-trigger-prod19696.aspx

Checked with Rock River, and they don't recommend their trigger for the 15-22. I'd read about some hammer breakage with this unit, and they seemed to confirm that issue due to unlocked blowback being hard on the hammer.

 

[SGT_Lindy]

This is for a 15-22??

Spend the money on ammo if you can find it. Seriously you could put a really nice trigger in a $450 .22 rifle but what is going to do for you?

For shooting steel, really fast, the stock trigger in my 15-22 is just fine.

Lots of other things are going to impact the accuracy of these guns. Cheap barrel, no free float and low quality ammo are going to impact your accuracy out of a 15-22 way before its stock trigger will.

Accuracy is Barrel, Ammo, free float, trigger.... then shooter.

If its speed you are worried about, the fact that you are shooting a .22 long rifle and the lack of any kind of recoil is what is going to be the biggest impact of speed shooting a 15-22. Doubtful a new trigger would help at all.

Now if this was a actual 5.56 AR then a after market trigger would help. I run Giessle SSA-E's in my AR's. I love them. No adjusting, break like candy canes, very high quality product.

 

[Soggy2007]

I run the 3lb Timney trigger in my S&W 15-22 Performance Center rifle. I also use the JP anti-walk pins with it. This is an excellent setup with NO PROBLEMS. Timney is now reccomending that IF YOU HAVE ANY POLYMER LOWER, they will provide a small thin piece of aluminum for underneath the trigger to protect the polymer lower. Contact Timney and they send you this metal plate free of charge for this purpose. I haven't done this yet.

 

[POWinCA]

I have a number of ARs, so I decided to get a different Geissele for each one. I think I have the Super Tricon, Super 3Gun, SSAE, Super Dynamic. I have a single stage POF in my AR 10 and a Timney pack in my Tavor. I bought a TacCon but haven't installed it in my build yet.

The bottom line is that these are all good triggers, but the one that is right for you depends on your intended use. The only trigger that ever gave me a problem was the Timmey, and they replaced it quickly. Adjustable triggers are meant for pros or wannabes. Any of these are better than factory triggers. If you don't want to spend 250 on a trigger, Geissele has a budget line of decent triggers.A trigger pack like Timney or POF is almost idiot proof installation. The Geisseles are not hard to install but I would wear eye protection and a sheet over your head to catch flying springs if you bungle it. The slave pin they include is really useful. Remember that ultralight weight is fairly dangerous for anything other than competition shooting.

 

[S.B.]

If you are at all considering a Geissele or ALG trigger, this video is worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb5HXdDJhcHe of course talks about his own product lines, but he also gives good info on what makes certain designs of triggers good for specific applications.

Was Geissele the guy who teamed up with Krieger Barrel seveal years back to do their triggers?
Steve

 

[PeeShooter]

Speaking of triggers, I ordered sight unseen an S&W 10097 M&P9 Pro C.O.R.E 17+1 9mm 4.25" Ported which I intend to use for speed shooting. I'm assuming since it's from the S&W Performance Center it already has a sweet trigger...RIGHT? What should I expect?