+P Ammo in a 38?
- Thread starter Scooby67
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The +P 125 grain .38s have been listed at 925 fps, which is not going to overstress a steel K frame.
Sportsterguy
Member
Go for it with peace of mind.
selectgear
Member
Years ago my duty weapon was a 2" model 10 and the agency issued ammo was 158 gr +P. It never hurt the gun and we shot it to qualify 2X/yr. As to the J's the older models should handle it on a limited basis. Newer models marked +P should be no problem.
re:
As for carrying it in a model 36, it generally isn't advisable unless it's a -7. For the most part, I would follow that rule as far as practicing with it. As for carrying +P's in it for self defense, I've known several people who keep their early 36's and Colt Detectives loaded with them. Just don't feed them a steady diet of +P's and everything should be fine.
As for carrying it in a model 36, it generally isn't advisable unless it's a -7. For the most part, I would follow that rule as far as practicing with it. As for carrying +P's in it for self defense, I've known several people who keep their early 36's and Colt Detectives loaded with them. Just don't feed them a steady diet of +P's and everything should be fine.
kpm
Member
In my limited experience (60 and 36-1), YOU will tire of +Ps in a J frame long before it will damage the gun.
stantheman86
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Model 10-1's and later are fine for +P's.
If you are a collector of K-frames or have some extra cash, get an ex-PD 13 or 65 and shoot +P's all day through it. the K-magnums have better heat treating. I have a Model 13 and I love it, I don't shoot .357's through it but it's IMO a Model 10 with the ability to keep it loaded with .357's for defense.
There are retired LEO's out there who carried the same Model 10 for their entire careers and fired nothing but +P duty ammo through them and the guns are just fine.
If you are a collector of K-frames or have some extra cash, get an ex-PD 13 or 65 and shoot +P's all day through it. the K-magnums have better heat treating. I have a Model 13 and I love it, I don't shoot .357's through it but it's IMO a Model 10 with the ability to keep it loaded with .357's for defense.
There are retired LEO's out there who carried the same Model 10 for their entire careers and fired nothing but +P duty ammo through them and the guns are just fine.
roaddog28
Member
I agree. I have a 13-2 4 inch and use Buffalo Bores 38 +P SWCHP 158 gr ammo for home defense. At the range I use Remington 130gr green box standard pressure 38 special. Great practice round. Any K frame magnum will handle any +P round. Also the new model 10-14 4 inch will handle any +P round. The model 13 is really a heavy barrel 38 special that was chambered for the 357 round for serious use. My model 13-2 and model 10-14 look so much alike its hard to tell them apart.
Regards,
Howard
stantheman86
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That's the best use for a K-frame Magnum, and even S&W says ".38 Special for training, .357 for carry". If Bill Jordan says this too, who am I to argue
Jordan prompted S&W to come out with the k-frame .357 as the ultimate duty gun, since the only alternative at the time was the N-frames like the 27 and 28 which were heavy for all day carry.
I am a huge fan of the Model 10 and 64, but my Model 13 is basically what I consider a "Model 10 plus", the higher grade heat treating of the cylinder, barrel and yoke make these more durable than the 10's.
A few boxes of .357 in the 13 or other "K Magnums" won't hurt a bit, but I personally do not recommend a lot of .357's in them. Some say they shoot 158 gr. .357's regularly in them but I see no reason to do so.
I have a few Ruger Speed and Service Six revolvers chambered in .357 so I know how magnums handle in a medium frame revolver. I fired 18 158 gr. .357's in my 13 just to see how the particular gun fired with them, but I don't foresee any need I would have to fire any more.
The Ruger "Six" series are excellent k-frame sized revolvers, and use the same holsters and speed loaders as the S&W K frame. The Rugers can handle a lot more .357 though, and Ruger brought these out to take some of the LE market away from S&W as .357 medium frame duty guns became popular and police started to train with what they carried, which were 115-130 gr. .357's that started to break down their k-frame magnums.
Jordan prompted S&W to come out with the k-frame .357 as the ultimate duty gun, since the only alternative at the time was the N-frames like the 27 and 28 which were heavy for all day carry.I am a huge fan of the Model 10 and 64, but my Model 13 is basically what I consider a "Model 10 plus", the higher grade heat treating of the cylinder, barrel and yoke make these more durable than the 10's.
A few boxes of .357 in the 13 or other "K Magnums" won't hurt a bit, but I personally do not recommend a lot of .357's in them. Some say they shoot 158 gr. .357's regularly in them but I see no reason to do so.
I have a few Ruger Speed and Service Six revolvers chambered in .357 so I know how magnums handle in a medium frame revolver. I fired 18 158 gr. .357's in my 13 just to see how the particular gun fired with them, but I don't foresee any need I would have to fire any more.
The Ruger "Six" series are excellent k-frame sized revolvers, and use the same holsters and speed loaders as the S&W K frame. The Rugers can handle a lot more .357 though, and Ruger brought these out to take some of the LE market away from S&W as .357 medium frame duty guns became popular and police started to train with what they carried, which were 115-130 gr. .357's that started to break down their k-frame magnums.
roaddog28
Member
That's the best use for a K-frame Magnum, and even S&W says ".38 Special for training, .357 for carry". If Bill Jordan says this too, who am I to argue
I am a huge fan of the Model 10 and 64, but my Model 13 is basically what I consider a "Model 10 plus", the higher grade heat treating of the cylinder, barrel and yoke make these more durable than the 10's.
A few boxes of .357 in the 13 or other "K Magnums" won't hurt a bit, but I personally do not recommend a lot of .357's in them. Some say they shoot 158 gr. .357's regularly in them but I see no reason to do so.
I have a few Ruger Speed and Service Six revolvers chambered in .357 so I know how magnums handle in a medium frame revolver. I fired 18 158 gr. .357's in my 13 just to see how the particular gun fired with them, but I don't foresee any need I would have to fire any more.
The Ruger "Six" series are excellent k-frame sized revolvers, and use the same holsters and speed loaders as the S&W K frame. The Rugers can handle a lot more .357 though, and Ruger brought these out to take some of the LE market away from S&W as .357 medium frame duty guns became popular and police started to train with what they carried, which were 115-130 gr. .357's that started to break down their k-frame magnums.
Very good post. Along with my K frames I own a Ruger Police Service Six 4 inch. I agree with you on the Ruger Six series on handling 357s. The design of the Ruger Sixes series was stronger than the K frame magnums for shooting 357s.
Two of my favorite revolvers
S&W 13-2 4 inch
Ruger Police Service Six
stantheman86
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This is the best solution for firing lots and lots of Magnums......I am also an avid Ruger fan and have several fixed sight 3" and 4" GP100's as well as Six series revolvers. The Service Six is almost identical in size to the K-frame, maybe a little bigger but not enough to matter. What Ruger gives up in "elegance" and fine fit and finish it makes up for in toughness.
The Model 13 is a great gun but it can't touch the raw durability of the Ruger .357 revolvers.
roaddog28
Member
I agree again on your statement. I love all of my K frame magnums especially my model 13. But I shoot very little 357 magnums through them. I have my Police Service Six and a GP100 for shooting 357 magnums. I also have a 686-2 4 inch. There is no need to abuse my K frames when I have the Rugers.
Howard
Howard
Stophel
Member
Even "+P" .38's are loaded to ridiculously low pressure compared to virtually every other handgun cartridge made...well, except for .44 Special, which is probably even more anemically loaded...
stantheman86
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+P
I'm no ballistics expert but I believe 9x19 +P has higher pressures than the .38 +P.
European ammo is generally hotter, I had some older Sellier & Bellot .38 +P and it was loaded pretty warm. Even they seem to have downloaded their "export" ammo. I also had some of the 90's era S&B .357 that seemed to be made for European sales and it was some of the hottest factory .357 I have fired.
I fired 5 rounds of older Lawman .38 +P+ (back when it was loaded to nearly light .357 pressure) in my knockaround shooter grade 1980's era Model 60 and it's an experience I don't plan to repeat......I think my hand was numb for half an hour.....not good for the gun either.....but I don't think a few of these would hurt anything.
The newer 60's would be a better choice for +P+, if not full bore .357's for carry. I wouldn't make a habit out of shooting these in the new 60's either.
I'm no ballistics expert but I believe 9x19 +P has higher pressures than the .38 +P.
European ammo is generally hotter, I had some older Sellier & Bellot .38 +P and it was loaded pretty warm. Even they seem to have downloaded their "export" ammo. I also had some of the 90's era S&B .357 that seemed to be made for European sales and it was some of the hottest factory .357 I have fired.
I fired 5 rounds of older Lawman .38 +P+ (back when it was loaded to nearly light .357 pressure) in my knockaround shooter grade 1980's era Model 60 and it's an experience I don't plan to repeat......I think my hand was numb for half an hour.....not good for the gun either.....but I don't think a few of these would hurt anything.
The newer 60's would be a better choice for +P+, if not full bore .357's for carry. I wouldn't make a habit out of shooting these in the new 60's either.
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
1. It is a myth that "P+ ammo is hot. It is actually a fairly mild load. A 125 at 925 FPS is hot? Give me a break.
2. It continues to amaze me how some people advise using a 357 Magnum revolver to use +P ammo. The 357 Magnum revolvers are designed for 35,000 PSI Magnum ammo. The +P generates 18,000 PSI. Why do you need a Magnum revolver for this ammo? The 38 Special +P is 38 Special ammo, not 357 Magnum ammo and is fine in any quality made 38 Special revolver.
3. Recommending lower powered practice ammo in a defensive pistol can get you killed. In 1970 four CHP officers were killed in a gunfight and a leading cause of their inability to fight effectively was determined to be the agency's policy of using low powered ammo for practice. The CHP changed this as a result of the "Newhall Massacre." Every reputable firearm instructor teaches that one should practice with the same ammo that is actually carried.
I continue to be astounded by the never ending mystique surrounding +P. It is loaded within industry specifications and is not a hot load. Of course S&W is overly cautious. They don't want lawsuits. They also advise against reloaded ammo.
2. It continues to amaze me how some people advise using a 357 Magnum revolver to use +P ammo. The 357 Magnum revolvers are designed for 35,000 PSI Magnum ammo. The +P generates 18,000 PSI. Why do you need a Magnum revolver for this ammo? The 38 Special +P is 38 Special ammo, not 357 Magnum ammo and is fine in any quality made 38 Special revolver.
3. Recommending lower powered practice ammo in a defensive pistol can get you killed. In 1970 four CHP officers were killed in a gunfight and a leading cause of their inability to fight effectively was determined to be the agency's policy of using low powered ammo for practice. The CHP changed this as a result of the "Newhall Massacre." Every reputable firearm instructor teaches that one should practice with the same ammo that is actually carried.
I continue to be astounded by the never ending mystique surrounding +P. It is loaded within industry specifications and is not a hot load. Of course S&W is overly cautious. They don't want lawsuits. They also advise against reloaded ammo.
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Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Wheel-er, can you please describe the difference between the first S&W with a model number stamped on it and the last gun made without the model number stamped on it that makes the former OK for +P while the latter is not?
Hint: There is no difference. The guns are identical except for the number being stamped on one of them. Why does the model number make sense as an indicator of +P approval?
Hint: There is no difference. The guns are identical except for the number being stamped on one of them. Why does the model number make sense as an indicator of +P approval?
