Petraeus calls gunscope inscriptions "disturbing"

[Marty919]

I may get flamed for this one, but even I, who admitedly is NOT a religious person, have trouble with this. I say BRAVO to Trijicon for what they did. Our men and women are dying to protect our rights - one of which is the right to free speech.

Do our service men and women have to take off their crosses or stars of David they wear around their necks? Are they prohibited from carrying a Bible in their packs? Why should having a reference (not even the entire quote printed out) engraved on a scope be criticized? And as I say I am NOT religious, but I think it is an outrage to denigrate Trijicon for doing this.

For my money I am going to buy some more sights from Trijicon as a show of support. They are a great company, produce a great product, and IMHO they have the right to free speech as do our service men and women who put their lives on the line every day just so we CAN say what we want.

Am I missing something? Love to hear opinions on this.

Marty919

 

[afriqueart]

If Trijicon was awarded the contract to produce the scopes, then they shouldn't include any religious messages. I agree with free speech but, why should every service person who is issued a US piece of fighting equipment be forced to have one company's religious dogma stamped on it. How do you think the Jewish soldiers feel about it? How do you think the Muslim soldiers feel about it? How do you think the non religious soldiers feel about it?

No one is making anyone take off any symbols of whatever religious dogma.

How would you feel if a US company quoted the Koran, the Torah or Biff and Buffys intergalactic journey to La La Land on their US issued whatever?

How would you like your tax dollars to purchase items with Koran sayings on them?

My point is this: It's not the US military's business to pass out items that refer to any religion.

 

[Marty919]

afriqueart:

I agree with some of your points entirely. But... for example, what if they engraved things like "have a nice day", "be safe", "don't forget to call your mother"... that would surely be OK... what if they engraved things like "In God We Trust", as on all our money... I have a hard time drawing the line here, especially since they were only references, not entire quotes... it is unlikely an enemy would even know what those code letters meant they look like serial numbers... I'm happy my tax money is being used to provide scopes, I wouldn't care if they quoted Porky Pig saying "That's All Folks!".

But in fairness, I do totally see your point, and respect your opinion... and THAT is what this is all about. No?

 

[afriqueart]

That's why we have chocolate and vanilla. Neither one inherently better than the other. Just different.

 

[BlackSky]

I find Gen. Petraeus disturbing.

 

[RdrBill]

All.
At my age I would love to have a little divine guidance and assistance to ensure that my bullets were hitting the mark. I would like to have one of those optics sets. I hope our Marine snipers say a little prayer for the dead muz POS they just shot. Just to make sure they have a chance to go to the right heaven.
Those scopes are almost as bad as the money all our troops carry around. Did you know it says," IN GOD WE TRUST", on the side of our coins, it even says that on the back of the $1 bill in my hand.
Some day America will wake up and fight these animals at the same level they are fighting us. Screw all the PC crap. We considered all the folks on the losing side in WWII as subhumans and evil and animals. Certainly made it easier to kill them without regret. Same applied to the wars with the litle yellow men in Korea and Vietnam.
I don't see Muz as any thing to special, the are the enemy. Killing them with Gods assistance is fine with me.
God, Country, and Corps.
The folks that are upset with the inscription on the scope, probably are not the one risking their lives using it. The real fighting men don't care how they kill the bad guys. Just kill them.
Bill

 

[gr8AmericanBash]

+1 Excellent post Bill.

This country will be (is being?) destroyed from within.
It will not take muslim terrorists or another country's nuclear bombs to bring us to our knees.

 

[godlessgael]

A few points:

1. If these are the best optics available to our troops and/or the Iraqis that are fighting on our side to stabilize the region, they can quote whatever they want IMHO. Denying the fighting men and women of the best because people can't get over something like this is absurd.

2. Were the references on the optics when the government awarded the contract? If so, too bad for the US government, they knew what they were buying. If not, the references need to be removed.

3. Per usual, the liberal activists went after this issue in the completely wrong way. The real issue here is how these contracts are being awarded, how much attention is being paid to what they are actually buying, and the expectations set in the contracts that they should be free of any religious, cultural or political affiliation. Of course, that would mean that a little accountability would be expected, and we can't have that......

 

[GF]

Trijicon gave in.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/118855-secret-jesus-bible-codes.html

GF

 

[Marty919]

+1 to Bill and to Bash.

We are destroying ourselves nicely enough. The PC crap is just that - more stupid words so someone doesn't get their feeling hurt. XXXXXXXXEditXX

As I said earlier, I myself am NOT religious, but I wish people Merry Christmas, I say Bless You when someone sneezes, etc. I try not to intentionally insult or hurt anyone with my words, but damn, this is getting just plain stupid already.

I think anyone should believe anything they want as long as it doesn't risk or hurt others, and their beliefs don't cause them to act like 3rd graders with this "My Dad is Better Than Your Dad", "My God is Better than Your God, So I Will Have to Kill You" crap.

Pray to whatever God you want, go to whatever church or synagogue or mosque you want, but when you take it to the "I will have to kill you now" level, it HAS to be gloves off, NO you will NOT kill me.

When the opponent plays dirty, you are at a disadvantage, so I say ANY advantage is a good advantage. I am angry that if we have to go to war in the first place (which I wish we DID NOT HAVE TO DO), at least let's do it to win instead of *****-footing around.

This is not a matter of God or no God, Democrat or Republican, we are fighting for our very survival as a people, a country, a world, a planet, a society. And we are losing folks. Stupidity is the real enemy. If the energy spent by the Dems, Repubs and Conservs bickering over everything does not get re-directed to the real problems, and real enemies we will NEVER be united. "United" States? Really? What exactly are we united about? We can't agree on financial, political, religious, social, educational, health issues amongst ourselves - how can we accumulate the real power and strength and potential we have here in the US to secure our present and future safety?

I assure you the real enemies of our survival out there are laughing hysterically at our behavior. Our leaders are morons, our populace is being dumbed down by the media so most people believe whatever they hear enough times, our schools teach barely enough to get by in today's world... arrggghhh

I think we are already on our knees, and it's NOT for praying.

IMHO of course.

 

[Lomax Anderson]

sorry but if it was there when they got the contract ...then that IS what they bought...

I feel they have the right to put whatever they want on it...it is the best product out there ...so what ...paint them pink ...if it bothers you

We were founded on the right to have Religious Freedom ...and to choose ...and to speak our minds...What has changed?

 

[Marty919]

And while I do understand why Triji gave in, I applaud them for having done it in the first place anyway. I don't take a stand on the God issue, but if there really ISN'T a god, it doesn't matter what's engraved on the scopes, and if there IS a god, how can it hurt to have a little divine help?

Sorry Triji had to eat crow on this one, they did nothing wrong. The only sheeple who did anything wrong here were the ones who spent 2 minutes of energy on making a big deal out of this when there are so many more important issues to bring to the public's attention.

 

[7shooter]

There was an ACLU type on the radio the other day going on about this. He said one of his objections to it was that the U.S. has a policy of not allowing our troops to prosetylize in muslim countries. I was wishing the interviewer would have pointed out that if the ACOG is functioning as intended that conversion is not a likely outcome.
I just checked my ACOG and it has the "JN8:12" on it. No complaints here.

 

[7.62foryou]

The only thing that would make this better is to use Israeli produced ammo that is dipped to pig blood before it's shot.

 

[buckeyeshooter1]

I have no problem with any inscrtption on the optics. They are the best in class, that is what the troops deserve. If the founder was religious and wanted it on the product and they leave it there in rememberance of him, that's ok too. This is The United States of America--- not Iran, people making a product can adorn it as they wish.

 

[Hobie]

Think they'll get rid of those little crosses inside the sights?

 

[bricker]

I don't think it would hurt to remind our soldiers that God is looking out for them, or us, for that matter. How can a scripture reference be harmful to anyone printed on the side of a scope? Have we gotten so PC that it has come to this? I almost gave over to a rant, carry on.

 

[BarbC]

We were founded on the right to have Religious Freedom ...and to choose ...and to speak our minds...What has changed?

We were founded on the right of freedom of religion. What has changed is now some people think they have a right to freedom from religion.

Rather than teaching respect and tolerance for religious expression, some people feel their sensibilities are damaged from an expression of a different religion. The separation of church and state harkened back to the day when the church and the government were one and the same and it was a crime to be of another faith. Today, again, some people feel that this separation means that there shall be absolutely no intrusion of any god of any flavor into our secular lives.

They've gotten it backwards.

 

[Capt Steve]

First of all General Petraeus is not some left wing nut job. He is held in very high regard by most of the folks here on this forum. As I said before (in another thread), Trijicon has every right to put whatever they want on their product. They should however have disclosed to the purchaser, the US Government, that they chose to do so. They didn't because they knew they probably would not get the contract or would be asked to remove the biblical references. I'm not saying that that is right or wrong, just the way things are today. New Zealand has already demanded the references be dropped and is removing it from scopes they already have, other nations will surely follow suit.

The folks at Trijicon are not stupid, they knew what they were doing might/would be controversial. The end result is that Trijicon has gotten millions of dollars worth of free, good publicity (a win/win situation), and will probably sell more scopes than ever. Methinks they are a lot smarter than anyone gives them credit for. (o;

 

[Herknav]

They should however have disclosed to the purchaser, the US Government, that they chose to do so.

Completely disagree. If (and I don't know that it was) it was on the scope when it went though trials and "the G" didn't notice it, then it's their tough luck. Caveat emptor applies. Perhaps, as a gentleman on another forum suggesed, they should quote the Talmud, "If a man comes to kill you, rise early and kill him first."

I wonder how much it'll cost to replace all of these offensive scopes. Perhaps we can get a group buy together on used Trijicons for $.10 on the dollar.