Picked up my 625 JM. First impressions.

[at_liberty]

I find myself with a new interest in a 625 PC (for shooting lead), but the clown grips would be ditched immediately. Love the Pachies on this gun frame.

 

[oneflycowboy]

Good info here. I have been thinking about a 4" JM for a while.

Thinking more about a nice used 25-2 a little more after reading this thread and some other comments I have read about the JM 625.

I have a 625 model of 1988 with a 5" barrel that I think is great. I thought about getting another 45 ACP revolver and was considering the JM 625. However I am a little concerned about some of the things I have been hearing with regards to these new JM 625's.

 

[Warpspasm]

8 day mandatory waiting period? Interested to know whether that applies to your first owned hand gun only?

Hahahaha.... hardly. I'd rather not say how many handguns and rifles I own. Maryland is a common sense free zone.

 

[Warpspasm]

Good info here. I have been thinking about a 4" JM for a while.

Thinking more about a nice used 25-2 a little more after reading this thread and some other comments I have read about the JM 625.

.

I'm not sorry I bought the revolver. It's a great shooter and a ton of fun. I am disappointed in some of the workmanship however.

 

[Warpspasm]

I just got back from the range after shooting about 85 rounds of fmj. Obviously not leading, but there was a lot of carbon at the bottom of the forcing cone. After I cleaned everything, I closed the cylinder and looked down the barrel with a small light. I can see the slight edge of the cylinder wall along the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if this is the bigger issue. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't think I should see ANY part of the cylinder edge. If the cylinder isn't lined up properly and there is a gap between the bullet leading edge and the barrel, when it first enters, hot gases would pour in and melt the lead against the barrel at that gap. Yes? No?

 

[hangnoose]

DISAPOINTED BUT NOT SURPRIZED

I did want to hear how the JM version compared to the PC. I guess both shop mgr's need a swift kick in the pants. NOT what I would want nor expect for that kind of money. How much does the master pistol service (that should come with EVERY gun) from the PC cost?

 

[Bearbait in NM]

Warp,

I just looked down my barrel, and think that may be a really poor way to tell anything. Depending on how my eye was centered, I could see any part of the chamber I wished.

If your smith has a range rod (or you) that might be more of a quantitative way at comparing the centering or gap. I picked one up just to have, and was not expensive. The range rod is the proper way to address cylinder mis-alignment. For myself, had mine come in with a rough FC, I had decided I would address it by polishing or possibly cutting a different angle. But I like smithing, and love to tinker. Depending on what you like to do or fiddle with, sending back sure seems to make sense. If you think the FC is cut off center, polishing might help leading, but not help accuracy.

I did almost a week's worth of research on the web, and had pretty much concluded that PC is more of a features thing, and less of some mastergunsmith turning out a custom piece. I would tend to think that the differences between the PC and JM is features, and either one could have cosmetic or functioning issues. Mine had two easily remedied issues for someone half handy.

I had my PC out again yesterday for some reasonably serious accuracy and load checking with 45 Supers. At 25 on a bench with a red dot, groups in 45acp were ok with plinking Ranier plated 230's. With 255 grain lead SWC's moving along at 1000 fps, the bullets were stacking on top of each other, when I was bearing down. I was also checking velocity, recoil, red dot centering, etc so not a pure accuracy session as I had a lot going on, but my PC looks like it will run right there with my FA in 454. I had to hand fit a Kart barrel to my Colt 1911 to get it anywhere close to what this PC will do out of the box. I am a happy camper, so far. I do wish you luck with yours, and your decision.

Craig

 

[Warpspasm]

Craig,

I think you're right about the alignment issue. I'm getting paranoid about the quality control. The real issue is the forcing cone. I don't mind paying premium price for a handgun, but I do expect a premium handgun in return. I love this revolver except for the forcing cone and the fouling issue. I contacted S&W this morning and attached photos. They said to send it in for inspection. I am now awaiting a postage paid label and it will be on its way. I just hope, after inspecting it, they don't say it meets the current specs. That would be very disappointing.

 

[Bearbait in NM]

Warp,

I completely understand. I ordered mine new from a seller on GB, and besides a couple of tough sleeping nights wondering about the seller, I had worries about the gun itself. Too much board research and looking at canted barrels and other things that tend to get magnified on boards, going on ;^) It really sucks not being able to have a local place that can get guns that you want, so you can inspect properly.

FWIW, if you were to send a gun back and complain that the barrel was mimimally and slightly canted, or your BC gap was 0.009, you might have problems with S&W. maybe. I would think no way in heck that anyone there would say those machine/chatter marks are in spec.

I think if I were to have a conversation with them or send a letter with the gun, I would mention something about the FC possibly being offcenter, and perhaps concern that shooting a bunch of lead followed by jacketed could possibly stress the FC cone enough to split and be dangerous. Just enough verbal information to convey that you have certain expectations, and have understanding beyond a novice. maybe not needed, as you know what you have discussed so far. I am sure they will make it right.

Craig

 

[Warpspasm]

Warp,

I think if I were to have a conversation with them or send a letter with the gun, I would mention something about the FC possibly being offcenter, and perhaps concern that shooting a bunch of lead followed by jacketed could possibly stress the FC cone enough to split and be dangerous.

Craig

Excellent points. Thanks.

 

[hangnoose]

NOT SO FUNNY

But interesting as how much today is said to be "within spec", that years ago would have never been allowed to leave the shop. Spec must have changed a lot.

 

[at_liberty]

I would tend to think that the differences between the PC and JM is features, and either one could have cosmetic or functioning issues.

The 625 PC page says "deep cut broached rifling",

while the 625JM says nothing like that.

Mine does not have the rifling definition that I see in my other guns and is presumably EDM rifling, a luxury in time required to produce for championship accuracy but apparently not well suited to lead bullets.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

So when did they start outsourcing their work to Taurus? Or do they use prison labor to cut those forcing cones?

 

[Bearbait in NM]

The 625 PC page says "deep cut broached rifling",

while the 625JM says nothing like that.

Mine does not have the rifling definition that I see in my other guns and is presumably EDM rifling, a luxury in time required to produce for championship accuracy but apparently not well suited to lead bullets.

At Liberty,

That is pretty much what I deduced reading everything before deciding on the PC. As I noted earlier, mine definitely likes lead but I do not have experience with edm cut to condemn lead in them. I assumed the omission in the description on the S&W website was perhaps confirmation of my research. It sure would be more helpful to folks trying to decide, to have specific details directly from S&W.

Another difference that I only found out after ordering is the ejector shroud. the shroud on the PC is open on both sides. You can see the ejector rod from the right side of the gun. I must have stared at a hundred PC images before buying, but did not snap to it until the gun was en route. Most images are of the left side of the gun. Or I was asleep at the switch. It is growing on me though ;^)

Craig

 

[sw282]

spasm...l just looked at the forcing cone on 8 revolvers..6 Smiffs. A HiStandard Sentinal and a NAA mini 22...Smiffs included a couple old police pistols..one a 1973 Model 19..ln the bunch were a couple 629 PC Hunters and couple used ones. NONE were rough like yours..

A thousand dollar pistol should look like it has a thousand dollar barrel.. Not like a $40 RG

 

[Warpspasm]

spasm...l just looked at the forcing cone on 8 revolvers..6 Smiffs. A HiStandard Sentinal and a NAA mini 22...Smiffs included a couple old police pistols..one a 1973 Model 19..ln the bunch were a couple 629 PC Hunters and couple used ones. NONE were rough like yours..

A thousand dollar pistol should look like it has a thousand dollar barrel.. Not like a $40 RG

My point exactly.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

The 625 PC page says "deep cut broached rifling",

while the 625JM says nothing like that.

Mine does not have the rifling definition that I see in my other guns and is presumably EDM rifling, a luxury in time required to produce for championship accuracy but apparently not well suited to lead bullets.

So you're saying the JM is not lead friendly? Or the PC?

 

[at_liberty]

At Liberty,

That is pretty much what I deduced reading everything before deciding on the PC. As I noted earlier, mine definitely likes lead but I do not have experience with edm cut to condemn lead in them. I assumed the omission in the description on the S&W website was perhaps confirmation of my research. It sure would be more helpful to folks trying to decide, to have specific details directly from S&W.

Another difference that I only found out after ordering is the ejector shroud. the shroud on the PC is open on both sides. You can see the ejector rod from the right side of the gun. I must have stared at a hundred PC images before buying, but did not snap to it until the gun was en route. Most images are of the left side of the gun. Or I was asleep at the switch. It is growing on me though ;^)

Craig

As long as they softened the knife edge that we sometimes see at the ejector rod shroud, is there any other issue with the shroud being open on both sides?

 

[Bearbait in NM]

at_liberty,

I checked mine carefully, and all the edges are crisp but not sharp. I haven't sorted out the exact reason, cosmetic or weight reduction, but with the contoured shroud and shorter cylinder the gun is certainly "lively" when pointing. I am guessing the short cylinder, the shroud cuts and the barrel being a little deeper in the frame all make the gun balance differently than the JM. 4" to 4". What I would really love to do is shoot a mountain gun in similar size side by side with the PC ;^)

I am actually appreciating the lack of nose weight, as it really makes it easy to keep your index finger on the the trigger hand from creeping into a situation where it is also supporting the weight of the gun. Bad form and all.


Jayhawk, the PC is cut rifling which historically is fine for lead. Rounded, or EDM or variations of the polyagonal type rifiling (JM seems to have EDM) can be a bit more problematic. You can search about Glocks and lead, or Marlins and Microgroove v. Ballard to get some idea of the issues. I have recovered more than a few fired lead bullets from my PC, and the smear at the ogive from the land engagement looks great. My barrel is grabbing the lead quickly.

Craig

 

[hangnoose]

GOT A FEELING I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER.

Any owners of OLDER 625's have the hack job forcing cone or alignment issues? What app date or dash # would you feel is safe to buy?

 

[michaelnel]

8 day mandatory waiting period? Interested to know whether that applies to your first owned hand gun only? Anti 2nd amendment advocates would argue that time serves as a "cool off period" preventing the buyer of said gun using same in the heat of the moment. However if you already own a gun, why would the buyer need to wait 8 days to use the new gun rather than the others that he owns? Oh, silly me I forgot. One can't apply logic to most gun legislation.

We have had a 10 day waiting period in California for many years. The powers that be would gladly make it an infinite waiting period if they could.

And yes, it applies to handguns, rifles, and shotguns, and it doesn't matter how many you already have.

 

[michaelnel]

I don't mind paying premium price for a handgun, but I do expect a premium handgun in return.

Me too. My PC Stealth Hunter lists for almost $1700. My $650 Ruger Bisley Hunter has way better workmanship and attention to detail every place but the interior of the barrel, where the Smith is clearly better.

 

[kdiver58]

The QC issues are pretty surprising for a gun in this price range, but not too disappointing if it's still a great shooter. Like you said, they're easily remedied. What was the issue with your strain screw?

This will be my first moon clip revolver. I looked at a number of mooning and demooning tools. There's a GREAT looking one that loads or unloads them all at once. BUT, it also costs $80. The Brownell's tool looks like a good one for demooning. In the meantime, I bought some RIMZ to try out. I've read a number of good things about these polymer moon clips, so I'm hoping they're true.

My 986 had quality issues that IMHO should not have existed at the price range we are talking about .. So I feel your pain.
TK makes the best moon clips but they are pricey .. I wish I could get RIMZ for my 986 !!

 

[Guitarmageddon]

My 986 had quality issues that IMHO should not have existed at the price range we are talking about .. So I feel your pain.
TK makes the best moon clips but they are pricey .. I wish I could get RIMZ for my 986 !!

Moons and demoons all at once??

Is this like a progressive press of mooners?

 

[MWC2068]

Moons and demoons all at once??

Is this like a progressive press of mooners?

The one he is talking about is the BMT Mooner, it's caliber specific, one side of lid loads them turn it over and it demoons them, I ordered and tried the rimz poly moon clips they don't last they break and if they get hot by sitting in the sun the rounds fall out, I wouldn't buy them again.

 

[whitecoyote]

I like my 625 JM

No complaints with my 625JM.
Fit & finish is perfect. Accuracy is awesome.

 

[eTripper]

I like the 'black accents' on the revolver, which is a nice touch. As I stated before, not so much a 'fan' of the Miculek grips. They would definitely have to go.

 

[Bearbait in NM]

White,

Yours is a 625 PC. Lots of little differences with the JM ;^)

Craig

 

[at_liberty]

I like the 'black accents' on the revolver, which is a nice touch. As I stated before, not so much a 'fan' of the Miculek grips. They would definitely have to go.

I don't believe those are Miculek grips like the 625JM. I have both guns, and the grips are different. The JM true Miculek logo grips are like a ball bat for Jerry's big hands. The PC grips are slimmer and much better in hand than in a picture. Very slick matte finish though. I doubt I will stick with them, especially because of the clown color.

 

[rde1911]

The forcing cone was rough on the outside also. I took my 3/8 X 3/8 smooth Arkansas stone and cleaned off the burs and smoothed it up. I was surprised they would let guns gout looking like this.