Pictures Of Sigma Internals?

For those that wonder what the outer sear spring is for, the following is from S&W.

The outer sear spring was added to insure the sear will reset when using hot defense loads. Cutting or removing these springs may cause the gun to fail to fire due to the sear not resetting when using hot defense loads. (The slide moves faster with hotter loads)

No amount of shooting with mild loads will determine whether the gun will function correctly with hot defense loads.
 
Now, shouldn't you shoot at least a few hundred rounds of your defense load through the gun to verify the reliability with that ammo before relying on it for defense?

Are most people really intending to use a hotter load for defense than they use for normal routine practice?

I am using Winchester 115gr white box FMJ for practice and Winchester 115gr white box JHP for defensive load, they should be the same pressure, no?

I noticed right off that the gun functions differently when shooting these WB Winchester rounds than it does with a less hot load like the Monarch from Academy. I don't want to risk a FTF under any circumstances.
 
mr. 72, I'm merely stating what I know from my own experience. My Sigma was not under warranty, so I didn't have that to contend with. Your decision to do a spring job or not is always your decision. Our lives may depend on our decisions in a self-defense situation. I'm sure the Sigma will go bang as reliably as possible if it is left stock. I just don't like how hard it is to shoot and I can do something about it. The balance is to keep it reliable. I like to tinker and so I report what I find in hopes of helping anyone else who likes to tinker. I haven't made any physical readings on the stock sear or to the customized sear, but it feels better now and is still reliable for me.

Kawabuggy, do you still think the striker spring change made the biggest difference for your trigger pull?

Thanks
 
im fairly new to this site ive been shooting guns since i was 11- 12 yrs old i own a sw40ve and the stock trigger is extremly stiff at 12.5lbs i removed the inner spring from the sear block and it dropped from a 12.5lb to a steady and consistant 9.2lb draw it is very reliable ive fired over 300 full metal rounds 165 gr both reloaded and new rounds with only 1 gun jam probably due to lack of cleaning i also fired 50 ppr rounds thru it with no jams or ftf on average i put 100 to 150 rounds a week thru this firearm every wed. i go to a private range and shoot this gun it is very affordable and fun to shoot with a normal trigger pull this week after firing wed. i will do the biweekly cleaning of this gun and i will polish the sear block to try and smooth the trigger out and will repost in about 2 weeks im thinking of replacing both internal sear block springs with that of a doubled spring from 2 ball point pens ill let you know how it works in a few hundred rounds also no im not modding a firearm that is used as a carry weapon if the mods i make are good and no jams or fail to ftf's in say about 600 rds i will switch it to a carry weapon ill let you guys know
 
I can only say the mods I've done to my 40VE have made me really like this gun - AND - it is reliable. I'm finding that how I lubricate this weapon is CRITICAL. Too much is not good - some of you probably know that. I'm looking for a good "dry slide" lubricant for it now. I know it's been debated, so I'll let you know what my search and trial reveals.

DBell, I'll be interested to hear how your experiment goes. The polishing will really smooth out the action. If you have a Dremel, I highly recommend the polishing kit they sell for it. It has everything you need to polish all the key parts. My sear has a mirror finish on it now and the action is consistant and smooth.

A buddy of mine who is a Glock gun smith took a look at my Sigma and he said that except for the sear assembly, it looked and acted just like a Glock. He said some of the parts even looked the same. We discussed why the trigger pull was so hard on it and he just laughed and said that he was sure it is because the Sigma is made in Ted Kennedy's state. Wow, did that open my eyes. I'm just throwing this out there, but it does explain a lot.

I still haven't found that Glock 4 pound striker spring that was mentioned in an earlier post. If anyone has a handle on part number, would you please post it here? Thanks and good shooting.
 
For sure-the BIGGEST change in trigger pull came from changing out the striker spring.

****I must caution however that you stand the greatest chance of experiencing an FTF when changing out the striker spring.****

Those few times I experienced an FTF it was due to a light firing pin strike on the primer. There was a witness mark on the primer, but it was not enough to activate the primer/powder in those instances. I have not experienced any FTF's since I started loading my own. The only FTF's I experienced before were using the cheap Monarch ammo. Maybe the primers are tougher in the Monarch ammo????

Since I started hand-loading I have complete confidence in my gun. I carry it every day concealed. I am currently using Hodgdon Longshot 10 grains, behind a 155 grain Speer Gold Dot bullet with a CCI primer. This is giving me over 1200 FPS. The gun has a lot of recoil with these & I think I am going to have to buy the stronger recoil spring to try and control hammering the slide back. I don't know what the hoopla is about in regards to resetting the seer, I can rapid fire through an entire clip with these hand-loads and do not experience any issues. My only complaint would be that I am not very accurate when rapid firing due to the excessive muzzle jump when firing.
 
That is for the Sigma reduced power Striker, and thank you. I was looking for the 4-pound Glock spring that worked. My thinking is if the stock spring is 4.75-pounds and the reduced Sigma spring is 3.5-pounds (and fails occasionally), if I can get a 4-pound spring, it will reduce the trigger pull and still be reliable. I just want to try that, anyway.

Thanks again for the quick response, but I'm looking for the Glock 4-pound spring.
 
Yes, that looks great. Thanks for finding that. I'll get some ordered, install them and try them out. I'll let you know if it makes a difference to the feel of the trigger, FTFs, etc.
 
That would be great if you'd post your results...I have two Sigma's, and I'd like to try and reduce the trigger pull on one of them. I may also order a stronger recoil spring/rod for the SW40VE.
 
the Glock 4 lbs striker spring is nice I like it better than the wolf 3.75lbs which I certainly dont trust with all primers.
dont recall if I had primer trouble with the glock spring was long while ago. I just use my stock spring that came with the gun it is just a hair heavier than the glock 4 lbs and stock part.

I need to see what I can do to get the trigger as light as possible for competition use probably wind up using federal primers or next best thing. not crazy about completely removing a sear spring seen the spring uncatch from bottom of the sear and bend towards the magazine well disabling the gun.

it may be worthwhile to get spring packs from wolff and trim up some custom sear springs.
wish I had the time for that at the moment.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/520103904/m/2711011482/p/1

also just want to caution those shooting Full House Hodgdon Longshot loads. they are not too nice on the sigma I managed to break my locking block pin using 8.0gr Longshot with 180gr FMJ booking 1150fps. gun still worked though with quirks but I needed a new pin just fyi. most likely why glock went to 2 pin locking blocks.
 
ok testing is now done i have polished the internals of the sear block and a few other areas that were mentioned in this post ive tested with a few different springs from pens and other items i had lying around and i seem to be happy with a 8.5 lb pull by removing the lower spring i believe it is called the sear torsion spring it is the round one with 2 finger coming off of it also tried with only one spring the big one in the sear assembly didnt like the out come after aprox 100 rounds i noticed the spring walks forward without the center spring in there and i couldn't seem to find one that would fit like that one does so i tried to shave a few hairs off the original spring best i could get it down to was 8.5 lbs of trigger pull using a digital gage at my local range a few of the range officers also fired the gun saying that it seemed to be crisp and smooth and if they could buy one like that they would for the $250.00 after cleaning it and the final stage of this project im happy with 8.5 to 8.75 lbs and it seems to fire clean i shot about 400 rounds thru this gun after final assembly 100 rounds of new out of box ammo winchester 165 gr and approx. 250 rounds of reload from my brother in-law all 155 and 165 gr various loads ranging from 3.2 to 6.0 and seems to be very consistant only one ftf and it was like the primer was just defective had a strong hit but didnt fire also one jam but again it was pretty hot towards the end and every round fired until the last 35 or so rounds all in all this mod if done correctly with patience can be used as a carry weapon.
 
It sounds like you did a pretty good job, I have a Sigma 40GVE and I did all the mods too, but a little different than you, I polished all the inside componets, and replace the trigger return spring, with a wolf spring, and then I took the sear assembly springs out and took off one coil on each spring and put them back, its been on my side everyday now for the past three years now and haven't had any problems, one sweet pistol.......
icon_biggrin.gif


SGTMOE
USMC RETIRED
 
yeah sure would be nice if the gun came with a few area's polished what a difference it makes.

I recently took a polishing wheel to the bottom of my slide where the trigger arm protrustion rides and cams I polished it up before but didnt get it done to well. the polished parts clean very easily too.

2 needle noses to the torsion spring will adjust it though takes carefull adjustment.
I like the idea having it in specially if planning on using it for defensive purposes have all the parts in should gun be called into question looks better.

I have has the sear springs come out from under the sear before that sucks so much. I wish the recess in the sear was deeper.

think I will buy a sear module and see if I can get a smith to deepen that recess some and test it.

not sure what my trigger weight is but its much much nicer than on a new sigma. think I it is around 5-6.5 pounds with all springs installed.
 
I will try and take another small amount off the internal springs maybe even get it down to a 7.5 - 7.0 but I don’t want to go to much more than that I have fired a .38 with a hair pin trigger in single action it pulls with literally just a breeze and in double it still don’t take much to get it to the release point and it is more scary than anything else but a lot of fun to shoot I’m going to go get more polishing paste ran out the sear cam is practically a mirror there are still a few little imperfections than only sanding it will get out as far as a gunsmith for making the hole deeper your probably better off with a machinist lucky I have a good friend that does that
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I’m going to try and shave another 1lb off the trigger I will try and adjust the torsion spring with needle nose like you said it’s just a matter of making it weaker but I’ve had approx. 400 rounds with no spring and with no noticeable problems and I haven’t cleaned it since the 400 or so rounds so ill shoot it again Wed. of this week dirty to see if I can get it to jam or miss I will post again with my findings then after that I will clean it try and polish the cam and shave the springs a bit more was wondering what the lbs of sgtmoe’s trigger is approx is fine I was thinking about the wolf return spring and wondering if it was worth it this is by far the easiest gun I’ve ever got to take apart and play with I didn’t pay much for it I got it from a friend for $100.00 because he didn’t like the trigger now I think he’s looking for another used one
icon_smile.gif
since he’s fired this one I’ll keep you posted with any findings
 
I have only trimmed 1 spring it has a double loop at top and bottom. they will lighten up with use.

yeah smith would cost more. I have taken machinist class. would do it myself but my Bridgeport and accessories is sitting in fantasy land.
 
im not sure how light they will become ive have fired over 2000 rounds thru this gun in the 8 months ive owned it and probably another 500 to 1000 rounds when my friend owned it and when i got it the pull was still around 12 lbs i am going to try and shave the springs a bit more before i tweak the lower torsion spring ill let you know hoe it goes if i can get it to around 7 lbs ill be happy 6.5 the lowest i want
also when you get to fanatsy land to get your bridgeport bring me back a paper bag full of 100's
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I don't place much faith in the "shoot it a lot, and it will get better" ideology. I think in those situations, the person just shoots the gun enough that they get used to the horrendous 12 lb. trigger. If it is not exactly as you like it the first time you shoot it, you have work to do.

Again, I want to recommend that the BIGGEST change to be found will be to change out the striker spring. If you take an all stock gun, and change only the striker spring, you will have an entirely different gun on your hands. Nothing that you do to the sear, or springs relative to the sear, will be as dramatic a change as the striker spring.

I don't have a trigger pull scale to measure what the current pull is on my trigger. But with all of the updates that I have done, I would estimate that I am at 6 lbs. or possibly less.

I will get a scale to confirm my guesstimate, or disprove it, one way or the other.
 
Try this:
Polish the correct internal componants.
Remove the larger, coil spring that fits over the smaller diameter coil spring.
Trim a coil spring from BALL POINT PEN, to the same length as the original larger coil spring,install the weak spring from the ball point pen, and go shooting. The ball point pin spring fits over the smaller spring, and will keep the smaller spring in a strait coil when it compresses. The resulting action has been reliable for me and is simular to firing a tuned revoler. very good. NOTE: all ball point pen springs are not the same, and the spring that you choose must be of larger enough diameter so the smaller spring will function with out binding.
 
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