If I was a serious RM collector, I would have paid the gavel amount or more for this "one of a kind" Magnum.
Bill
Bill
Pinto RM gavel price
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wlp624
Member
Interesting that the expert at Amoskeag put a Pre-auction estimate on it of only $5000 - $7000.
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Take auction estimates with a grain of salt..........or perhaps a good laxative.
Low estimates have a two-fold use: They entice bidders to hope they can buy it cheap, so they show up to bid. When it goes dramatically higher, the auction house can entice other sellers to consign by saying: "See! It brought FIVE times the estimate!"
Conversely, when the house has a turkey that might not do well at auction, they can place a high estimate on it, hoping to assure bidders they are not paying too much.
Just the old 'psychology game' in play.
Low estimates have a two-fold use: They entice bidders to hope they can buy it cheap, so they show up to bid. When it goes dramatically higher, the auction house can entice other sellers to consign by saying: "See! It brought FIVE times the estimate!"
Conversely, when the house has a turkey that might not do well at auction, they can place a high estimate on it, hoping to assure bidders they are not paying too much.
Just the old 'psychology game' in play.
Modified
Member
He is referring to an old saying about fine collectibles:
"You didn't pay too much for it, you just paid it early."
The inference is that truly fine, desirable collectibles will always appreciate.
Indeed, I just suspect that it will be a few years yet before whoever purchased it could get that money back out of it without much trouble.
The way Registered Magnums are going however, I do not doubt that in the coming decades the gun will sell again for more money. Every time someone I know links me an auction for a gun that they think went for a lot of money I find it is a very easy thing to explain away.
Guns are cheap. Even $28,000 is cheap for something like that. Consider how much money people spend on car collections, art, old plastic beads.
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I think it could be sold for more now.
They did not properly present it-
no pics of the checkered backstrap and trigger. The visual impact of those special order features is high.
Merely mentioning 'factory records' and 'correspondence' is not the same as showing it and leaving no doubt the gun is a correct and probably UNIQUE variant of the most collectible S&W in today's market.
They did not properly present it-
no pics of the checkered backstrap and trigger. The visual impact of those special order features is high.
Merely mentioning 'factory records' and 'correspondence' is not the same as showing it and leaving no doubt the gun is a correct and probably UNIQUE variant of the most collectible S&W in today's market.
wlp624
Member
I did think it was very curious that they didn't expand on those details.
joesmith357
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I wonder how the previous owner came up with it? I wonder if it was some pawn shop that paid someone $150 for it.
rburg
Member
Because this thread has covered the high points, please allow me to make a detour (aka, hijack). Above we've mentioned the last we're going to see of this gun. Its been my observation that unless the gun was purchased for resale, most frequently its the last we see of just about any gun.
Length of ownership obviously varies. Many of my guns I even wish I'd kept longer. I sold them for any number of reasons, some good and some selfish. The one thing that keeps ownership short is the idea that by the time many of us can afford such nice luxuries, we're on the downhill end of a successful working life. Just how long do you expect to live?
There are some owners who many of us know and wonder what will become of their collection. And we have the high profile collectors who pass on and their pieces get scattered to the winds. Some of us even wonder about the more precious examples like RM #1. The guns that have never appeared in public during our lifetimes. None of us have a clue where the .22 lives.
I even wonder if the gun in this thread was ever fired. I've got to assume that it was manufactured to shoot. At least once. But was it? Will the new owner bother firing it? Does it have "its" box? How about the sight adjuster and the spare rear sight blade? Ever wonder what happened to those little niceties?
Over the years I've managed to snag/luck into some great guns. I just wonder how many others have died an inglorious death. Stolen from the estate by the never do well nephew. Then left in the car because everyone in the family wondered where it went. I know of a Randall knife, an anniversary model that had a serial lower than #10. A druggie niece snagged it right after the owner died and traded it for some drugs. Gone into the underworld. Surely none of the scum she associated with had a clue as to what they had. The assumption being that it was left sheathed in the Florida humidity to rust away.
You've got to wonder how the widow or executor will understand how much it cost and the best way to dispose of it. Widows often have a soft spot for their spawn (not always). Those of us who are old (meaning they read the S&W forum) sometimes do discuss this kind of thing. It probably needs to be written and placed where the next of kin can find it. Before they've done something stupid and dumped a very valuable collection for pennies on the dollar. Even the OPs gun (I know, he wishes) if taken to BillyBobs gun emporium probably would only be valued at a tiny fraction of what it sold for. You almost can't fault old BillyBob for not following S&Ws. He sells HiPoints mostly. A fine value for someone stretching his lunch money for just about any gun.
Of course the guy who bought this one probably isn't hurting for lunch money. I would guess he'll have lunch today regardless. Remember the next of kin or person disposing of the assets can do as they please. Maybe the worst solution is that suggested by my own wife. She was going to just let our sons pick out what they want. It pains me no end that one of my sons never bothers to clean his guns. I'm torn between the extremes of being glad he at least owns them and not understanding why he feels no duty to take care of them. I've concluded the better approach is to allow the vultures (gun purveyors) take what they want or feel they can sell. Then let the sons take what's left over. Those have been with me the longest, if I haven't already given them away.
The subject gun here is pretty. It certainly hasn't lived a life of service to its owners. I'm guessing the last seller, the one who put it up for auction, is the guy who made the largest profit. Remember, 15 years ago RMs, even pretty darn nice ones could be had for under a $1000. I've see spectacular specimens sell for maybe $3000 during that time frame.
Length of ownership obviously varies. Many of my guns I even wish I'd kept longer. I sold them for any number of reasons, some good and some selfish. The one thing that keeps ownership short is the idea that by the time many of us can afford such nice luxuries, we're on the downhill end of a successful working life. Just how long do you expect to live?
There are some owners who many of us know and wonder what will become of their collection. And we have the high profile collectors who pass on and their pieces get scattered to the winds. Some of us even wonder about the more precious examples like RM #1. The guns that have never appeared in public during our lifetimes. None of us have a clue where the .22 lives. I even wonder if the gun in this thread was ever fired. I've got to assume that it was manufactured to shoot. At least once. But was it? Will the new owner bother firing it? Does it have "its" box? How about the sight adjuster and the spare rear sight blade? Ever wonder what happened to those little niceties?
Over the years I've managed to snag/luck into some great guns. I just wonder how many others have died an inglorious death. Stolen from the estate by the never do well nephew. Then left in the car because everyone in the family wondered where it went. I know of a Randall knife, an anniversary model that had a serial lower than #10. A druggie niece snagged it right after the owner died and traded it for some drugs. Gone into the underworld. Surely none of the scum she associated with had a clue as to what they had. The assumption being that it was left sheathed in the Florida humidity to rust away.
You've got to wonder how the widow or executor will understand how much it cost and the best way to dispose of it. Widows often have a soft spot for their spawn (not always). Those of us who are old (meaning they read the S&W forum) sometimes do discuss this kind of thing. It probably needs to be written and placed where the next of kin can find it. Before they've done something stupid and dumped a very valuable collection for pennies on the dollar. Even the OPs gun (I know, he wishes) if taken to BillyBobs gun emporium probably would only be valued at a tiny fraction of what it sold for. You almost can't fault old BillyBob for not following S&Ws. He sells HiPoints mostly. A fine value for someone stretching his lunch money for just about any gun.
Of course the guy who bought this one probably isn't hurting for lunch money. I would guess he'll have lunch today regardless. Remember the next of kin or person disposing of the assets can do as they please. Maybe the worst solution is that suggested by my own wife. She was going to just let our sons pick out what they want. It pains me no end that one of my sons never bothers to clean his guns. I'm torn between the extremes of being glad he at least owns them and not understanding why he feels no duty to take care of them. I've concluded the better approach is to allow the vultures (gun purveyors) take what they want or feel they can sell. Then let the sons take what's left over. Those have been with me the longest, if I haven't already given them away.
The subject gun here is pretty. It certainly hasn't lived a life of service to its owners. I'm guessing the last seller, the one who put it up for auction, is the guy who made the largest profit. Remember, 15 years ago RMs, even pretty darn nice ones could be had for under a $1000. I've see spectacular specimens sell for maybe $3000 during that time frame.
Unless of course the ship was the Titanic and then he was counting his blessings the next day.
bmg60
Member
Hi
I agree with Bill and Lee I don't think the price was to high for a one of a kind gun.
The gun in the attached picture sold in 2004 and it is in my collection now I am the 2nd owner since the auction. It is also a one of a kind, and as far as I know
the only 2nd model 44/40 target made.
Jim
I agree with Bill and Lee I don't think the price was to high for a one of a kind gun.
The gun in the attached picture sold in 2004 and it is in my collection now I am the 2nd owner since the auction. It is also a one of a kind, and as far as I know
the only 2nd model 44/40 target made.
Jim
Old TexMex
Member
.
Precisely, my friend. One never knows.
"some of the best deals I ever made was deals I never made"
( my old daddy)
Old TexMex
Member
rburg: a very clear look there, Thanks Dick.
At the moment, I'm executor of an estate which includes some collectable and common long guns. I could take them all at once to a gun show, dump them on a seller for wholesale, or get a table and sell them "retail". Instead, I have decided to hang on to, and sell the arms individually to those who seek each one particularly, to hopefully generate the most money for the heirs, and supply a gun to someone who wants it specifically. We'll see how that works.
.
(I apologise for thread drift)
At the moment, I'm executor of an estate which includes some collectable and common long guns. I could take them all at once to a gun show, dump them on a seller for wholesale, or get a table and sell them "retail". Instead, I have decided to hang on to, and sell the arms individually to those who seek each one particularly, to hopefully generate the most money for the heirs, and supply a gun to someone who wants it specifically. We'll see how that works.
.
(I apologise for thread drift)
beagleye
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That's an interesting post Dick. Thanks.
I think a threshold has been crossed with collectable guns. I thinks it's getting clearer every day that the way these guns were made is gone, not coming back. And the internet is spreading the word and images, making them seem within reach of us all. I never would have gotten the bug without the internet.
I think a threshold has been crossed with collectable guns. I thinks it's getting clearer every day that the way these guns were made is gone, not coming back. And the internet is spreading the word and images, making them seem within reach of us all. I never would have gotten the bug without the internet.
wlp624
Member
Excellent musings by Dick Burg, very insightful, especially the part about only having the resources to acquire such a gun after a lifetime's combination of work, planning and luck.
And 'beagleye' is exactly right about the internet. In addition to Smith & Wessons, I also collect rare books, and when the internet first came along, the book shop owners resented it for the dramatic changes it wrought in the trade. Now they couldn't survive without it, and I can instantly purchase beautiful volumes from around the world.
And 'beagleye' is exactly right about the internet. In addition to Smith & Wessons, I also collect rare books, and when the internet first came along, the book shop owners resented it for the dramatic changes it wrought in the trade. Now they couldn't survive without it, and I can instantly purchase beautiful volumes from around the world.
S&WIowegan
US Veteran
I think the pinto RM is a fabulous gun and worth whatever price it can bring. I also think James Julia shows us how lazy/lackadaisical an auction house can become once they get the consignment. If they had posted tight shots as Lee showed it might have gone higher.
Dick Burg has the same thoughts about dispersal many of us have. I have a very intelligent wife who is a collector herself. She is also not a hoplophobe. I know she wouldn't call the sheriff and ask him to get rid of the guns for her. She has some idea of the total value in the safes. I've already warned her about the guy who will ring the doorbell before I'm cold. Beyond that, I don't have a plan.
Dick Burg has the same thoughts about dispersal many of us have. I have a very intelligent wife who is a collector herself. She is also not a hoplophobe. I know she wouldn't call the sheriff and ask him to get rid of the guns for her. She has some idea of the total value in the safes. I've already warned her about the guy who will ring the doorbell before I'm cold. Beyond that, I don't have a plan.
wlp624
Member
Simple, I made out a list of trusted dealers in both guns and rare books, and told her to invite them all to come over and bid against each other for my collections.
beagleye
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A quick story regarding dispersing collections: A close relative passed recently. He was a world class long range muzzle loader, he had refined taste, he was a collector of many things including Smith and Wesson revolvers, but his prize was his 19th century Rigby rifle. After he passed a reputable nearby auction house was chosen to sell his collection. The total from his guns exceeding 70 grand, his Rigby alone bought 20. Everyone accepted that as a windfall for his widow and was happy. Some months later after some closet cleaning I was given a nice coat, a fancy european sporting jacket with many pockets. Eventually my fingers happened upon a slip of paper in one of the more remote pockets. It was a receipt for a Rigby rifle for the sum of 90 thousand pounds.
WOW.....................
gjamison
Member
Let's clear this up. This RM was sold at Amoskeag Auction not James Julia. If you have ever looked at a Julia catalog you would have never made that statement. I have been to a couple of Julia auctions in the past and they are anything but lazy or lackadaisical.
One more thing Amoskeag and Julia are 2 of the best at there business!!!
