Pistols of the 90's

[scoobysnacker]

My P-6 Sig is marked with the year 1980 on it.
Communist Germany then.
Superb shape and shoots even better.
If it could talk,I would really listen closely.

I think that would be Free West Germany; Communist would be East Germany, which would be the Makarov.

I agree on the tales it could tell; Germany was at the heart of the Cold War.

I have a batch of Communist handguns from that era; EG Mak, Polish P64, Hungarian PA 63 (with a darkened frame, I believe the FEG site says that meant it was sent to EG), Czech CZ 82. Oh, and commercial Russian Mak doublestack. Those are definitely "before" the 90's, since the Wall came down... but I guess since that was only able to hit our markets because of the 90's, we can list them too.

 

[BAM-BAM]

My P-6 Sig is marked with the year 1980 on it.
Communist Germany then.
Superb shape and shoots even better.
If it could talk,I would really listen closely.

My mid to late 80s Sig 220 is marked "W. Germany"

 

[C J]

My P220 is too. The company operated out of West Germany. I think they moved when the iron curtain was being built. They had been in the Suhl region which had a number of great firearms companies. Or at least the Sauer part of the company was (Sig Sauer was the name of the pistols made in Germany. Now it's just Sig). A lot of great guns came from that region originally. The P210 remains the best pistol ever IMO.

BTW my P220 was made in 1990.

 

[Absalom]

My P220 is too. The company operated out of West Germany. I think they moved when the iron curtain was being built. They had been in the Suhl region which had a number of great firearms companies. Or at least the Sauer part of the company was (Sig Sauer was the name of the pistols made in Germany. Now it's just Sig). A lot of great guns came from that region originally. The P210 remains the best pistol ever IMO.
.....

Almost correct. J.P. Sauer and Son was indeed a gun manufacturer in the traditional German center of gun-making, Suhl. That ending up behind the Iron Curtain, they relocated to Eckernförde in West Germany after the war.

However, SIG stands for Schweizer Industrie Gesellschaft and was a quite separate Swiss company. Their firearms branch developed the SIG P 210 in the 1930s; Sauer never had anything to do with that gun. They also developed the SIG assault rifles starting in the 1950s.

Not until the 1970s did some corporate mergers result in the emergence of the SIG Sauer brand and the line of pistols starting with the P 220 in 9mm, originally the Swiss army sidearm. Ultimately, the West German branch in Eckernförde fabricated all the pistols.

Later, an American branch was founded, and some more corporate shenanigans happened. I kinda lost track. Parts of the companies were at various times known as Sig Sauer, Sigarms, Swissarms, and what have you.

 

[bananaman]

Some years back, I purchased a Beretta 96 LEO turn in. Lots of wear unfortunately. It was pretty uneventful in terms of fondness for me. BUT... The Ruger P90, was a great fun range gun. Don't have it any more. Wish I did. Maybe someday another will come my way. Bob

 

[Michael Sisley]

I got infected with CZ's in the 90s. I love wheel guns first and always, and my carry gun is an Airweight 5 shot with a hammer, but the CZ pistols are fantastic. I am going to get a 75 BD here shortly because they may or may not be made in the future. I have a pre-B model but its collector value keeps me from using it very much. (I have the original box, all the paperwork, all the extras in the box, etc.) I need one I can shoot all the time. My most accurate CZ is the 75 P-01 compact. In winter it is my carry gun. These CZ pistols look good, function flawlessly, are not picky ammo eaters, and make this average shooter a lot better than other pistols can. I WILL NOT buy any of their new plastic guns. I have a G43 I am transitioning to so I can carry magazines vs speed strips. I don't like Blocks but they work well, will take abuse, simple to clean, no maintenance other than springs whenever that may be. The newer guns just have nothing that says "sexy". Suppose that is why I love wheel guns. My blued model 19-5 with 4" barrel shoots extremely accurately and IS sexy.

 

[C J]

J.P. Sauer and Son was indeed a gun manufacturer in the traditional German center of gun-making, Suhl.

I thought I said it was just the Sauer part of the company that moved from behind the iron curtain. I knew that at any rate. Didn't know they had no hand in developing the P220. I did know Sig was a Swiss company. But again, my P220 was made in W. Germany.

 

[Absalom]

I thought I said it was just the Sauer part of the company that moved from behind the iron curtain. I knew that at any rate. Didn't know they had no hand in developing the P220. I did know Sig was a Swiss company. But again, my P220 was made in W. Germany.

That's what I meant by "almost correct" . I just wanted to correct the impression that the P 210 had the same origin and belonged in the line of pistols, P 220 and up, that were developed by the joint operation of SIG and Sauer starting in the 1970s.

The P 220 actually replaced the P 210 as the Swiss army pistol in 1975, although a Swiss subsidiary of SIG continued civilian production of the P 210 (several dash variants) into the 2000s.

Meanwhile, SIG Sauer shrunk the P 220 to make it fit the dimensional requirements of the West German police trials of the mid-1970s, resulting in the P 225. Its adoption as the P 6 by the federal police and the majority of West German states was what really launched SIG Sauer on its path of becoming an international success despite losing the US military contract to Beretta later.

 

[C J]

The P220 is certainly a big hunk of steel compared to many of today's pistols. That's a big reason I no longer carry mine. The capacity for the weight involved just isn't justified now. But the accuracy of those things is really good. I have one other pistol that rivals their accuracy but only to about 25 yards. Past that it doesn't seem to keep bullets stabilized enough. The Sig will shoot accurately to 50 yards or so. I did carry it for at least 10 years. I used a shoulder rig though. I didn't want my pants falling down.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Guns from that era are big.

People talk about weight and size like it's a bad thing, but unless you're carrying all day, it's desirable. Fits the hand better, tames recoil, etc. Makes range time pleasant and fun, and if it's on the nightstand or in the truck, size isn't that huge an issue for defense either.

Another issue- in the 90's, a large amount of available guns were known models that had been around awhile, and were maybe getting slight tweaks to improve them.
I see people talk about warranties today, and speak of the customer service they've received from places, and how they get things fixed, like that's a fantastic thing.
Maybe it's blind luck on my part, but I have a lot of older guns, and I just don't know anything about warranties and customer service... because I haven't needed to use any. Yes, the 25 yr old extractor on a CZ 75 finally lost it's bite, and I replaced it for $30. But outside of that, little to nothing. I'd be furious if I had to test a warranty within a year, not pleased that they honor it, but angry that the darn thing needed it in the first place.
Just seemed like there was more emphasis on getting out a pistol that ran ("built like a tank" seems to be the consensus), back then.

My rant about reliable guns is based on the Shield reviews I've seen- there are lots of "what a great price this is" threads, but also a lot of "I needed to send it back in for ___" too. The ratio of complaints to praise is way too high for my liking, but lots of folks seem to just dismiss that due to warranties. Gun does you no good sitting in the shop.

 

[Old Corp]

Great topic -- most of my autos are from the late-80's through the 90's.
Old former duty guns in the M1076, M4566,and a German police surplus P7 9mm, an early 90's Browning HP, a Taurus PT92 'Beretta clone'.
All great hardware from a time that will not be replicated.