Playing golf can be dangerous....looking down the barrel of a rifle!

[BarbC]

Maybe it's sarcasm, as in "The gentleman in question was observed knifing the old lady as he grabbed her purse which he absconded with after he pushed her down."

 

[wbraswell]

You did the best you could, and keep up the good fight. Sounds like you seriously cut into somone's doughnut time.

 

[jbozz300]

I would definitely stay on top of the local LEOs and then go and sit down with the golf course management and make a stink out of it with them, nicely of course. They need to know, if they don't already, that this can and will become a major threat to anyone that decides to play at that course. I guess in the long run she will be running off business that the golf course needs, esp. in this economy. Short of it all legal action needs to happen here to keep her from shooting anyone....

 

[venomballistics]

I would definitely stay on top of the local LEOs and then go and sit down with the golf course management and make a stink out of it with them, nicely of course. They need to know, if they don't already, that this can and will become a major threat to anyone that decides to play at that course. I guess in the long run she will be running off business that the golf course needs, esp. in this economy. Short of it all legal action needs to happen here to keep her from shooting anyone....

and to expand upon this a bit, since the airhead has caused a hazard that patrons of the course are best to avoid. She has caused a condition of lost income which I do believe they can sue her for.

 

[Capt Steve]

I would definitely stay on top of the local LEOs and then go and sit down with the golf course management and make a stink out of it with them, nicely of course. They need to know, if they don't already, that this can and will become a major threat to anyone that decides to play at that course. I guess in the long run she will be running off business that the golf course needs, esp. in this economy. Short of it all legal action needs to happen here to keep her from shooting anyone....

An interesting wrinkle to this mess is that I work for the golf course. I have been a Marshall on the course for four years. I had to fill out an incident report for corporate even though it was my day off. My boss and I spoke at length and I sent him a detailed e mail. One of the big problems I am facing is that if the LEO's just drop this then the Homeowners Association and the Golf course don't have many options but if she goes off again and hurts/kills someone the the legal poo is going to hit the fan big time. I just got off the phone with the Sheriff's offfice and they are referring me to a supervisor for further investigation.

 

[DeadAye]

I just got off the phone with the Sheriff's offfice and they are referring me to a supervisor for further investigation.

Super! Don't let them drop it.
This thread has been bothering me all day - I wonder if she (or someone VERY close) isn't involved with law enforcement somehow.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

An interesting wrinkle to this mess is that I work for the golf course. I have been a Marshall on the course for four years. I had to fill out an incident report for corporate even though it was my day off. My boss and I spoke at length and I sent him a detailed e mail. One of the big problems I am facing is that if the LEO's just drop this then the Homeowners Association and the Golf course don't have many options but if she goes off again and hurts/kills someone the the legal poo is going to hit the fan big time. I just got off the phone with the Sheriff's offfice and they are referring me to a supervisor for further investigation.

Good to hear. Is management upset with you for pressing this?


Bullseye

 

[kennyb]

The lack of proof. Simply saying she did it isn't enough proof.

If they would have snapped a picture like previously suggested, it would be a different story.

that's simply not correct....people get warrants every day based on personal observation of a crime...yes,a photo would be nice...but observation also works quite well

 

[kennyb]

i would add that in this state it is a misd.offense (brandishing a firearm) as the officer did not see this he cannot get a warrant...you however can as you witnessed the event...please keep us posted...you have every right to be concerned..

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
"Aggravated Assault" and "Improper Exerbition of a Dangerous Weapon" are both Felonies.
You are the Victim of a crime and your golfing friends are eye witnessess to the crime.
With what I read, the responding Officer was just a shirt with a badge
pinned to it.
Get sworn statement from your witnessess or better still have them go with you to the LEO Agency. Request to see the crime report from this incident. Then request to speak with the Head of the Agency. Then go to the local news agency (newspaper/TV). Sometimes one has to "Push" to get things going.
Consider Civil Action.
As a post date- It could be possible that the responding officer is a relative or friend with the suspect.
Jimmy

 

[jrd1976]

Hindsight----ALWAYS report an incident immediately, even if you do not have a 911 address.

Four golfers on cell phones immediately reporting the same incident would have gotten a faster response from the police; probably a SWAT team.

All four should have waited on the police to respond. To do otherwise lessened the perceived severity of the event and made it your word against hers.

 

[2152hq]

...."What was I suppose to tell 911 - she lives in the house next to the tee box on hole #7???"

Actually that & just the name of the Golf Course would have gotten a response here from 911. There is something terribly wrong with that system if they refuse to send a response w/o a specific street address.

Landmarks are used more often than imagined. A 'commonplace' file in the system would pull up the name(s) & addresses of possible locations and the operator can verify w/the caller which it is. Thats old CAD technology and it's hard to believe any 911 system on computer wouldn't have at least that in their software.
When cell phones became more and more common, everyone called, but few knew where they were exactly. Even locals who traveled the same roads every day sometimes. Cell phone GPS has taken care of alot of that problem in finding where they are, but not all 911 systems have use of it.

The response time of over an hour for what would be a 'Menacing w/a rifle' call here is unbelievable. It's a Class E felony IIRC and that would not be taken lightly.
I wonder what the 911 Op entered the job as and how it was worded.

I don't blame you for being cranky and PO'd. I would be too. Sounds like an agency that may have gotten the word from above to work the crime stats and get one of those 'Safest Places in America' banners for the office.

 

[venomballistics]

Hindsight----ALWAYS report an incident immediately, even if you do not have a 911 address.

Four golfers on cell phones immediately reporting the same incident would have gotten a faster response from the police; probably a SWAT team.

All four should have waited on the police to respond. To do otherwise lessened the perceived severity of the event and made it your word against hers.

the error in this is that in the course of waiting for the police to respond, she too may respond.
you just do not know which tick of the clock will make the difference between "incident" and "firefight" ... common sense says minimize the number of clock ticks which occurs in one of two extremes ... make a hasty egress on one extreme, or eliminate the problem in hasty fashion on the other.
screwing around anywhere in the middle is simply an unnecessary risk.
screwing around in the middle does include calling 911.
pick one of the above clock truncation techniques, then call.

 

[jrd1976]

I was not implying that the 4 should have patiently waited at the ladies back yard for the police to arrive. Common sense dictates first a retreat to a safe place; then reporting the incident, with all witnesses waiting for the police to arrive.

 

[Capt Steve]

Just a quick update. I am waiting to hear from the sheriff's office and/or the County Attorney as to what if any charges they will be filing. Should hear something one way or the other by tomorrow at the latest.

 

[feralmerril]

I am guessing no charges will be made. (Not that they shouldnt be), it sounds like the deputy that took the report kind of wussed out and now the moment is lost. Cheer up. People like that dont change and if anything it may well encourage her to top her own act, and that probley wont be ignored the next time by the deputy or his department.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Sounds like you did the only reasonable thing to do, flee. Lots of good advice here... but if someone was pointing a rifle at me I'm not so sure I'd stop to take a picture.

 

[buckeyeshooter1]

I was playing golf at the local course this morning with three friends. All was well for the first six holes but when we arrived at the seventh tee we encountered the worst kind of nut...one with a gun. Her house is about 40 yards right of the tee box and we had zero conversation or interaction with this woman. As we were hitting our drives she let her two large dogs out of the house through the sliding glass door and followed them into the yard carrying a lever action, walnut stock rifle of undetermined caliber. I commented to my friends that you don't see a blond with a rifle around here very often.

I kept an eye on her and as we walked off the tee box she aimed the rifle directly at my partner and I as we were getting into the golf cart. Now she is about 40 yards away sighting us in and I loudly said "Don't do that!". She not only continues to draw a bead on us, as we drive away she tracks us for about 50 yards, all the while rifle at the shoulder sighting at our heads. I called the proshop and told them to call the Sheriff. By now we were several hundred yards down the fairway and lost sight of her. An hour and 15 minutes later the deputies arrive and I am brought in off the course to give my statement. I told them that she had a history of erratic behavior as she had gone off on a golfer that she accused of flashing her when all he was doing was tucking in his shirt. There were multiple witnesses to that incident as well. They head for her house and I return to the course.

About 45 minutes later I get a call from the deputy. Three deputies knocked on her door and she and her husband let them in. She denied the entire incident. Said they had guns in the house but none that matched my description. He didn't feel like she acted guilty or like she was lying and he felt it came down to he said/she said, no further action was contemplated. To say the least I was dumbfounded. Now I know that since the LEO's did not witness the incident they could not make an arrest but they made no effort to interview my three friends. He felt my credibility was strained as I had not called 911(calling 911 without a street address is a waste of your breath - they will not respond and I had no idea of her house address) and had knowledge of the prior incident. He inferred that I might have issues with her. I don't know this lady, have never spoken to her, just seen her on my rounds working and playing the course. I had knowledge of the prior incident only because I worked there.

He advised me to avoid any further contact with her (DUH!), and said the matter was closed. I reminded him that I had not had any contact with her until I was looking down the barrel of her rifle. Told him she was without question lying through her teeth and predicted he would hear of her again. I know LEO's are trained to be a good judge of people, read them when they are lying, but this one got by him.

For the record I was not carrying, I never do on the golf course. If I had been it would have been either my Bersa .380, my Smith 649 or MP9c. None of these would have been any sort of a match for a rifle at 40 yards. Pulling anyone of these and challenging her to drop the rifle would have only escalated the situation and we chose to flee rather than prolong our exposure to an obvious armed nut job. I just got off the phone with the deputy and asked him to call my partner for his version of what went down to verify my version. He apologized for giving me the impression that he doubted my version and promised to call Bernie.

OK guys let fly. What should I have done/not done?

I can not say you forgot to 'do' anything. I would absolutely play a differnt golf course from now on.

 

[Capt Steve]

Unbelievable!

I got the call last night from the deputy who had initially responded. Based on his investigation the County Attorney does not feel they can get a conviction so the case has been closed. That's it, nothing, zip nada, basically it never happened. I am a little calmer this morning, you would not have wanted to read the rant I contemplated last night. She committed two counts of felony aggravated assault and got away with it. I hope that there are no further incidents involving this psychopath but if/when there are, the Pinal County Sheriff's department is going to have a lot of explaining to do. I have always had the utmost respect for LEO's and the difficult job they do but this guy blew it. I'm going to stop right here as I feel a rant rising.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Steve,

I am so sorry about this outcome.

Time for a new county attorney, if he/she has to stand for election.

I want to again suggest the mental health route. Check what is required for an involuntary commitment (usually 72 hours) for the purpose of evaluation. Usually, the standards are lower than required for a criminal prosecution. As I said previously, in most states what is required are sworn affidavits from two or more adults. If an MD is required, that will be difficult, but if all it takes is two or more adults requesting her hospitalization for the purpose of evaluation, you and your golfing buddies have got what is needed. once the judge issues an order for the evaluation, the court will send sheriff's deputies to transport her to the mental health facility. That process may solve your problem right there, because if she resists she will have proven your point. You are acting in good faith, so she has no civil recourse against you, at least if the law in Arizona is the same as here in Virginia.

There may be good reasons not to do what I am suggesting, but my thought is, if you can get the temporary commitment order, my guess is that this woman will blow it on the in-patient unit, and that as a result she will be off the streets for a long time, and may even get the treatment she clearly needs.

I'm licensed in four states, and don't suggest any of this lightly, but clearly, something needs to be done to protect you and others.


Bullseye