Please settle a good natured argument of 5906 vs P226 series

[dutch686]

I have an older friend who absolutely loves his 5906 collection and I'm a Sig fan boy for semi autos, and smith for revolvers.

All other pistols stand in the shadow pf tje 5906

We get into good natured debates. He is determined to prove his point. Are there torture tests out there with the 5906 series? I think torture tests are fun to watch, and may have a little value. But more entertaining than anything.

Are there any tortured 5906's out there?

Thanks and Merry Christmas

 

[BAM-BAM]

I don't think the 5906 was in the M9 trials in the mid 80s. I think a 59 may have been submitted.

 

[GaryS]

659 maybe? I don't know about torture tests, but the 5906 is built like a tank. Other than running a real tank over it, it's pretty close to impossible to break.

The only weak spot in the 3rd Gens, to me anyway, is the grips. I don't know why S&W went to that one piece design unless it was cost and to discourage aftermarket companies from making grips.

I don't think the 5906 was in the M9 trials in the mid 80s. I think a 59 may have been submitted.

 

[jsbethel]

There was an early 5906 torture test done for the Shooter's Bible or like publication in the late 80's. A group of guys put several thousand rounds through the 5906 at one time with minimal cleaning and lubrication and published before and after measurements of wear. I will try to locate a photocopy I made of it for more info.

 

[TTSH]

The only weak spot in the 3rd Gens, to me anyway, is the grips. I don't know why S&W went to that one piece design unless it was cost and to discourage aftermarket companies from making grips.

It would be interesting to know the company's logic behind the 3rd Gen one-piece wrap-around grips. I do not find them offensive at all... the fact is that I really like them! But in terms of "torture testing" a la Army tests, it is clear that the original Delrin grips would have failed miserably.

 

[JohnHL]

It would be interesting to know the company's logic behind the 3rd Gen one-piece wrap-around grips.

Back in the late 80s, according to published reports in the gun magazines of the period, S&W went to the one piece grips to improve the unpopular ergonomics of the double stack pistols.

As I said, those were the published explanations.

Keep in mind, the troublesome nature of grip screws and bushings, along with eliminating several frame machining operations and the reduction of eleven separately manufactured grip parts (4 bushings, 4 screws, 2 panels, 1 backstrap) to just one injection molded part and simplified assembly probably had the bean counters smiling behind the scenes.

John

 

[fishwishin]

I'm a Sig fan for semi autos, and smith for revolvers.

This is my position as well. I have carried both extensively for long periods of time. I switched to SIG in 1996 (226 9mm) and then I went to a .40 cal 226 in 2007 (still carrying that one). Prior to that I carried a 5906 (1990-1996).

Both are great guns and very reliable. I would say the SIG has the weight advantage (makes a difference after years of long carry). Another personal opinion advantage is there is no way for the SIG to be drawn accidentally on safe. The decocker on a SIG is just that- a decocker. The DA/SA 5906 I had required the sweep down to decock and sweep up to go back into fire mode (just like most on here are accustomed to).

I was always afraid the 5906 safety would somehow end up in the wrong position when I needed it the most. When I carried the 5906 I found myself constantly making sure my decocker/safety was in fire mode several times a shift. Probably just a "me" thing, but it was a concern of mine.

 

[clang444]

5906 has a steel frame, the Sig 226 is aluminum alloy. You might be better comparing the Sig to a 5903.

 

[max]

I shoot my Sigs better, but carry a 669 because of the safety.

 

[nachogrande]

MURPHY'S LAW.

At the worst possible moment M L is most likely to happen. I can certainly understand the reasoning behind so many L E agencies going DAO.

 

[TTSH]

Back in the late 80s, according to published reports in the gun magazines of the period, S&W went to the one piece grips to improve the unpopular ergonomics of the double stack pistols.

As I said, those were the published explanations.

Keep in mind, the troublesome nature of grip screws and bushings, along with eliminating several frame machining operations and the reduction of eleven separately manufactured grip parts (4 bushings, 4 screws, 2 panels, 1 backstrap) to just one injection molded part and simplified assembly probably had the bean counters smiling behind the scenes.

Thanks John! I have to rely on you folks who were alive, awake and paying attention during the late-80's and beyond while I was in my "deep sleep"! There's no question that the wrap-around grips saved on cost to produce. I was hoping it was about more than just that and apparently it was.

I've said before that I was never a great fan of the 2nd Gens when they came out and that played a small part in my decision to put my gun collecting hobby on hold for what turned out to be the next 25 years. Never intended it to be that long, but that's how it worked out.

It makes me wonder: Had the 2nd Gens featured the more comfortable and attractive wrap-around grips, would I have been just a little more intent on maintaining my S&W collecting hobby, albeit at a necessarily much more modest $$$ level?

It's something I will never know, but it does kinda make me wonder.

 

[BigBoy99]

The only weak spot in the 3rd Gens, to me anyway, is the grips. I don't know why S&W went to that one piece design unless it was cost and to discourage aftermarket companies from making grips.

That is the biggest reason why I don't like and don't own any S&W 3rd Gen. guns. They just don't "feel" right. The Second Gen. S&Ws are the latest "version" I own, along with the First Gen. semi-autos. The chopped and cut-down 3rd. Gen. guns along with their ill-fitting grips are just not for me.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Re the 5906 vs P226;

Honestly don't know about torture tests, but both seem like they'd do a good job surviving regular and normal usage.

Comments made about the weight- I have a West German P226, a S&W 915, and have a pair of 5906's on the way.
The 915 (aluminum frame) is lighter than the P226, and dimensionally a bit smaller. Both take stock 15 rd mags, so no tradeoff on firepower.

Comments made on safety/controls: the Sig has only a decocker, while the S&W has a slide mounted decock/safety.
Someone mentioned a fear of drawing a Smith and accidentally pushing it to safe (sweeping down)-
sweeping down is a 1911 motion. Irrelevant to Sigs while drawing. However, Sigs do have some "1911 movement" risks of their own:
Never being on safe, there's a slight chance of firing while drawing, if you stick your finger in the trigger guard.
Also, with the different controls, during a mag change, there's a chance you hit what you'd expect to be the slide release (on a 1911)... that's the decocker on a Sig, so you'd have nothing happen. Have to slingshot it then.

Re the S&W safety, it's basically identical to the Beretta layout. Slide mount, down for safe and decock, up for fire. Berettas were issued and still in use, if you're used to that layout, a 5906 (or 915 etc) would be a non-factor. Also, both the Beretta and 5906 (not the 915) are ambi, so for leftys, still no issue.
I'm a lefty, the P226 is great, but the slide release in particular is awkward for me. I tend to slingshot it. Decocking, I have to move my grip. I don't worry about any of this, since if I were ever in danger, I doubt I'd be decocking... and I always slingshot every mag reload.

added: there are also some comments about the S&W's 1 piece wraparound grip. Again, drawing from my experiences with my 915 and P226;
I bought a Hogue wooden grip and briefly put it on my 915. I really didn't care for the fatter grip, and the seam at the back (it's 2 piece) was a bit noticeable. So I gave the Hogue to a friend with a 4006, and kept the stock (flat back) grip on the 915.
I put a set of Uncle Mike's rubber grips on the Sig, they look like the stock plastic, but feel better in the hand. Again, there's the seam, which doesn't bug me much since it was there on the stock.
I kinda like the 1 piece, since there's no seam and it's slimmer. I do prefer 2 distinct grip panels with a metal backstrap, but that's irrelevant regarding the P226 (at least, mine), since the grips cover the backstrap on that too.

 

[Denver Dick]

Some have already said it, "The 5906 is a tank." I believe this to be true. However, it also weighs and handles like a tank. I love my 5903 and my two 915 pistols. These three have alloy frame and are well balanced. IMHO, the 5906 is overkill for the 9mm cartridge.

All that said, in my experience, Sigs are all pretty well balanced pistols. I think a well matched comparison would be 5903 vs. P226, unless the test is firing 10,000+ rounds of P+ 9mm without ever changing the recoil springs. Then, the heavy "tank" 5906 might have the edge.

 

[scoobysnacker]

5906 has a steel frame, the Sig 226 is aluminum alloy. You might be better comparing the Sig to a 5903.

That is the biggest reason why I don't like and don't own any S&W 3rd Gen. guns. They just don't "feel" right. The Second Gen. S&Ws are the latest "version" I own, along with the First Gen. semi-autos. The chopped and cut-down 3rd. Gen. guns along with their ill-fitting grips are just not for me.

Some have already said it, "The 5906 is a tank." I believe this to be true. However, it also weighs and handles like a tank. I love my 5903 and my two 915 pistols. These three have alloy frame and are well balanced. IMHO, the 5906 is overkill for the 9mm cartridge.

All that said, in my experience, Sigs are all pretty well balanced pistols. I think a well matched comparison would be 5903 vs. P226, unless the test is firing 10,000+ rounds of P+ 9mm without ever changing the recoil springs. Then, the heavy "tank" 5906 might have the edge.

Honestly, I might give the 915 some advantages over the P226.

It's a bit smaller and lighter, and the trigger reset on my 915 is second to none. Both have faded night sights, I see them equally. I've never had the 915 malfunction, I did once have the Sig (it was a spring issue under the grip).

I shoot the Sig better at distance, and I'd say it does have a bit nicer trigger, but not a dealbreaker.
I'm very happy to own both.

 

[Jaymo]

The one piece grip of the 3rd gen Smiths is one of my favorite autopistol grips ever.
You can get flat or arched, to suit your hand.
My 5906 has the flat.
My 5946 has the arched.
I bought them (used, LEO trade-ins) that way.
My hands are XL width and thickness.
My fingers are medium length and XL thickness.
The flat back grip on my 5906 affords me better trigger control with the long DA pull.
The arched grip on my 5946 gives me the best feel and trigger reach, since mine is one of the MIM trigger ones with the shorter pull (no second strike capability).

The original 59 grip feels horrible to me, purely because of my hand/finger size.

My 3rd gen Smiths will all cycle a magazine full of empty brass, as well as every bullet shape I've fed them.
Good enough for me.

I also like the one piece wrap around grip of the Makarov and the Browning BDM.

I don't own a Sig, but I'm pretty sure either a Sig or a 3rd gen Smith will outlive me.

 

[Amp]

Since you asked:
I also buy Smith and Sig metal guns.
The Smith safety was natural for me because I carried it and competed with it. Went from a 659 to a 5906 and a 3913 for carry and had a steel gun built on a 915. So push the safety was the same.
Although I have lighter and smaller guns, I still have the 3913 but it is fighting for the job with a P225a1.
If Smith would have stayed in the metal gun market they would be competing with Sig today and would have refined their product.
Glad they still make wheelguns at Smith. I buy them.

 

[triaxle]

In the 80s they did test the Smith it was the 459 , Colt had a auto in it Beretta , Sig , and a Star . I still have the old SOF magazine from the testing , mud test , guys in a freezer etc .

 

[MidWesternBoy]

In the 80s they did test the Smith it was the 459 , Colt had a auto in it Beretta , Sig , and a Star . I still have the old SOF magazine from the testing , mud test , guys in a freezer etc .

Could you post the date and issue number of that SOF magazine?
I'd love to get it.

 

[imcrazy]

I would prefer a SIG not a fan of the old metal S&W guns, I don't like the safety / decocker on the slide but, I was big into 1911's for a long time so anything with slide mounted controls is out for me... I keep my semi autos simple these days and just have a collection of M&P's so I'm certainly not the most qualified to comment here..

 

[SMSgt]

I'm not picky, I'll take either--or both.

Wait . . . I have a 226 and a 6906.

 

[TTSH]

I would prefer a SIG not a fan of the old metal S&W guns, I don't like the safety / decocker on the slide but, I was big into 1911's for a long time so anything with slide mounted controls is out for me... I keep my semi autos simple these days and just have a collection of M&P's so I'm certainly not the most qualified to comment here..

Lots of "non-believers" and plastics folks posting here in the last few days... ... so you are not alone. It's starting to get me a little concerned! Maybe I should dump my 3rd Gen collection now while it still has some value left.

I, too, like my Sigs... but mainly those of the all-metal variety. Not into plastic Sigs yet (or ever?), although the P320c I tried from my range's loaner collection was pretty impressive. Then again, so was the brand new M2.0 Compact that I tried. Plastic keeps getting better and better... and cheaper and cheaper!

I would probably own more Sigs if they weren't so damn expensive. That's where the 3rd Gens excel IMHO. They are the best bang for the buck in the all-metal semi-auto world. And I guess I'll always be an all-metal kind of guy at heart. Even really good plastic does very little for me.

 

[samnev]

5906 has a steel frame, the Sig 226 is aluminum alloy. You might be better comparing the Sig to a 5903.

I have both the a 5903 and a WG P226. Just for fun/range shooting the 5903. If my life depended on it the P226. Both are excellent hand guns.

 

[BAM-BAM]

I've had a couple of 226s over the years...... in the end I opted for Smith 5906s for the range games and 915s for hi-cap 9mm carry.

A favorite these days are the updated Beretta Centurions;
Compact 4.2" upper on a standard frame, G/decocker model, radius-ed backstrap, ultra thin G-10 grips, upgraded sights with Mec-gar 18rd flush fit magazines....... See Wilson Combat's "Centurion Tactical" for every bell and whistle!!!

I like the .45 P Series guns and still have 220s and 245s. Also a 229 somewhere with .357sig and .40s&w barrels.

IMO the 228/229 is a much better sized gun for the 9mm vs. the 226

 

[murphydog]

I don't think the 5906 was in the M9 trials in the mid 80s. I think a 59 may have been submitted.

It was the model 459 that was submitted for the XM9 trials, with the runner-up being the P226.

 

[catcus-jack]

Parts are available for the 226 parts for the 5906 are getting hard to come by.

 

[robvious]

my late father had 39, 59, 6906 & 5906... never got the "feel" for any of them... I went the 1911, BHP & M9 route when old enough... until I got a P226... I now have 2 WG P226 and a bunch of the plastic Sigs... still like the 1911, BHP etc... but my brothers and nephew have my father's S&W semi's... I chose the S&W wheel guns instead... P226 sleeps by my bed every night...

 

[jsbethel]

Torture test mentioned in previous post (4) was from a publication called "Handguns '90". A 5906 had 7000 rounds fired through it in 4 hours. The pistol was cleaned every 504 rounds with diesel fuel and electrical contact cleaner and 4 drops of military LSO were placed on the frame rails. Malfunctions as follows - at round 4022, 6365 and 6934, the trigger failed to go forward enough to fire. This was determined to be due to metal flakes from the barrel/frame mating surfaces possibly blocking the action. Round 5346 was a failure to extract determined to be due to a possible short-loaded round. Ten rounds were fired from a ransom rest every 1000 rounds with the last group being the tightest.

 

[aurora40]

https://www.gao.gov/assets/210/208564.pdf

You can read about the 1980's US Army pistol trials here. It was not a 5906 submitted, though. I don't think you're likely to find more comprehensive testing than this.

 

[RedCardinal]

The OP asked, "Please settle a good natured argument of 5906 vs P226 series". I explored this match up many years ago and bought both, used both in LE, liked both and still have them. There are differences, none negative for me. I converted my 5906 to decock only. I added 9mm and 357Sig barrels to the all stainless P226. Qualified with both and never had a failure. I sleep very well at night knowing I have answered the question. Both have passed the test. The only problem with them is chain migration. Their family members just keep showing up seeking asylum in my safe.