POA/POI and +P Bodyguard 38

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flash60601

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Help me out here, you guys who are a bit more familiar with the new S&W Bodyguard 38.

My friend and I went to the range yesterday to shoot snubbbies (and his wife's SHINY Taurus PT92).

He had a new Bodyguard 38, and we must have ran a hundred rounds of 38SPL through it, trying to figure out just where the sights were. (The open iron sights) At 25 yds, POI was overtop the target backers. We closed in to 15 yds, and still were WAAAAAY overtop the target.

Then, with the laser on and POA at the bottom of a 20" square target, we were able to hit the paper, at the top edge.

We were shooting 158 gr Keith-style SWC's, clockinf @725 fps.

We even closed in to about 10 yards and still everything was HIGH, extremely so.

Lest you think us both lousy shots, we used my "Ol Reliable" Model 36, Charter Arms Stainless Undercover, and Taurus 85 Ultralight as "control", and we could both keep all shots in a 9" circle at fifteen yards with all of those.

After blasting all our 38 stuff, and much head-scratching, I found just two rounds of Winchester 125grJHP "Personal Protection" in the bottom of the range-bag, and they were, at ten yards, just an inch or so above the laser.

So I guess my question is: "What ammunition is this gun and its sights regulated for at/from the factory?" and "What load will work with a 158 gr SWC?"


I'm going to load up a bunch of 122gr cast truncated conical to @1000 fps, which ought to be near enough to +P to see where these sights go. What do you think? Oh, and has anybody ever chronoed those Winchester 125 +P 's?

Thanks,

Flash
 
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flash60601,
I have tested my BG38 with 9 different types of ammo. When reviewing my results, keep in mind that your BG38 may shoot to a completely different POA/POI than mine did. I have 7 guns with exact twins (model#, barrel length, etc) and none of these pairs shoot exactly alike.

I use the ~ symbol to represent a perfect (0) elevation and/or windage result. All of my data is from a target distance of 45 feet.

2 1/2" low/ 1" left - Remington 125 +P JHP

2 1/2" low/ ~ - Winchester 125 +P JHP

~/~ - Reload 150 lead RN

3" low/ ~ - Winchester 130 FMJ

~/~ - Reload 148 lead W/C

~/~ - Reload 158 lead SWC

~/ 1" left - Georgia Arms 158 +P lead HP

~/~ - Remington 158 +P lead HP

1/2" high/ ~ - Mag Tech 158 lead RN

I hope that this info helps.

Mark
 
Thanks, guys. I guess I'll get another box of this Win+P and fire it over the chrony.

AND in the BG-38.

I'll get back on this.

Flash
 
I'm having a similar issue...

I shot 158gr S&B FMJ standard pressure rounds out of my new 38 BG and it is printing 6-7in high at 7yds and 3-4in left. I put the laser right over the sights as well to the same result. Offhand, bench rested, doesn't matter. I compared it to my 642 in similar weight and it's apples and oranges...looks like I definitely need a higher front sight. I can't even get it on a target at 25yds with a 10inch low hold. Is this a common issue with the design? Should I send it in?
 
Argyle said:
I shot 158gr S&B FMJ standard pressure rounds out of my new 38 BG and it is printing 6-7in high at 7yds and 3-4in left. I put the laser right over the sights as well to the same result. Offhand, bench rested, doesn't matter. I compared it to my 642 in similar weight and it's apples and oranges...looks like I definitely need a higher front sight. I can't even get it on a target at 25yds with a 10inch low hold. Is this a common issue with the design? Should I send it in?
Click to expand...

I have a similar issue with my brand new BG38. It consistently shoots high and to the left when aimed via fixed sights.
Here is a pic of my two targets from last Sunday, The one on the left is at 15 feet and the one on the right is at 25 feet. Two-hand hold standing up.

bg38.jpg


I found an article online describing the same problem. So it looks like S&W have to figure out what the issue or maybe even recall all of them.
Here's the link to the article I mentioned:
The Other New S&W Bodyguard - Officer.com
The link goes straight to page 2 where the issue is discussed but feel free to read the whole thing.

I'm currently trying to see if S&W knows about this issue but for some reason I'm not getting any answers...
 
From what I've found with my fixed sight .38spl revolvers (I don't have one of the new Bodyguards, but that's not to say I wouldn't mind one), they seem to be regulated for 158gr standard pressure ammunition. If you go with lighter +P rounds, I find those tend to shoot to a lower POA.

But I don't know why a +P light bullet would be impacting HIGH. Sounds like something is amiss.
 
technosavant said:
From what I've found with my fixed sight .38spl revolvers (I don't have one of the new Bodyguards, but that's not to say I wouldn't mind one), they seem to be regulated for 158gr standard pressure ammunition. If you go with lighter +P rounds, I find those tend to shoot to a lower POA.

But I don't know why a +P light bullet would be impacting HIGH. Sounds like something is amiss.
Click to expand...

Actually I was using non P ammo. American Eagle
 
Vovan said:
Actually I was using non P ammo. American Eagle
Click to expand...

The OP wasn't... said it was 125gr +P, and that will shoot a shade low (not high).


But as for yours, given how S&W regulates their sights, I would expect POI for 158gr standard pressure rounds to be right at POA. If something is off with yours, then something is off... as I said, if things differ from what I've experienced, I would expect something to not be quite kosher. It's odd that fixed sights would be off for windage... I could see elevation, but not windage.
 
technosavant said:
The OP wasn't... said it was 125gr +P, and that will shoot a shade low (not high).


But as for yours, given how S&W regulates their sights, I would expect POI for 158gr standard pressure rounds to be right at POA. It's odd that fixed sights would be off for windage... I could see elevation, but not windage.
Click to expand...

I AGREE........
 
technosavant said:
But as for yours, given how S&W regulates their sights, I would expect POI for 158gr standard pressure rounds to be right at POA. If something is off with yours, then something is off... as I said, if things differ from what I've experienced, I would expect something to not be quite kosher. It's odd that fixed sights would be off for windage... I could see elevation, but not windage.
Click to expand...

You mentioned a particular way S&W regulates their sights. Can you elaborate on that, please?

Yeah, I agree, different loads might change the elevation but the windage is beyond my comprehension.

Somebody suggested that maybe the bullet is still in the barrel when it starts moving due to the recoil. I doubt that's an issue given how short the barrel is (1 7/8''). The bullet is long gone when the barrel starts moving up.
As for the sights, it's really hard to screw up the windage, I think. Rear sights are part of the barrel (well, the frame to be exact), and what they are is just a groove along the top of the frame. So that's aligned with the barrel by design.
The front sight is placed like on every other gun - at the end of the barrel and centered as well...
Yet, many many shooters report this gun shoots high and to the left and that is just really really weird.
I can't find any plausible explanation. I hope S&W has a fast camera because I'm afraid it's the only way to find out what is going on...

S&W makes other snub nose guns. Is this one the lightest? Does anyone know?
 
Last edited:
Somebody more knowledgable is certainly welcome to chime in here, but generally, you will find that a gun's sights are generally set up for a given load. For a .45ACP, the standard load is a 230 grain bullet moving at ~850fps. If you go to a lighter bullet moving faster, the trajectory changes a bit, so you'll be a bit off vertically.

For the .38spl revolvers, it seems that the "default" sighting is for a standard pressure 158gr bullet. My 642 shoots to point of aim with that load. So does my 64 (both are fixed sights).

Changing the load up by reducing the powder charge or by going to a lighter and faster bullet will mean a different point of impact. Part of that is the trajectory of the bullet, part of that how the recoil impulse affects the barrel's flight (as said, a slower bullet is in the barrel longer, making it more susceptible to muzzle flip).

But as you say, there's no reason why windage should be affected, and that the new 38BG is shooting high and left is indeed indicative of a problem that is NOT related to the load being fired. The BG is not the lightest snub S&W makes... that honor would have to go to the 340PD at 11 ounces (the 38BG is 14.3 oz). While the laser can probably be adjusted to be dead on, if the sights are that far off for that many people, there's something else at work.
 
Thanks for the clarification about the charge load and such.
I requested a recall of my revolver from S&W last week and still waiting for them to send me the shipping label.
I really hope they can figure it out.
I can't trust a gun that is off. Especially if it's called the Bodyguard...
 
I sent the BG38 to S&W for an inspection.
Hopefully, they'll be able to track down what causes the problem.
 
S&W didn't end up repairing my revolver - instead, they sent me a new one. Not quite sure what that means... Was the old one actually bad? I just got it and haven't had a chance to shoot it yet... I'll post my results as soon as I get out to shoot it...
 
I tested my new bodyguard today.
Very disappointed - this one has the same problem - high and to the left.
I asked one of the range guys to try it - same thing.
At this point I wish I could just get my money back...
Very very disappointing experience!!!
 
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