Pocket carry at the range.

[Buford57]

Range day yesterday. Monthly refresher and function session for my EDC Shield and another attempt to get flawless function from my R51 (close but no cigar), both 9mm.

Since I was shooting my EDC, I was carrying something else from my selection, specifically a 642 in a Galco Horsehide holster in my right front pants pocket.

After a couple of boxes I had to cut the session short. About 8 hours later I had cleaned the Shield and removed the 642 to return the Shield (in a DeSantis Nemesis) to its usual spot. As I pushed the pocket fabric back in I noticed a 9mm empty.

The pants were Carhart jeans. The Shield is a snug fit when holstered and I don't mind. I can grip and draw the gun, but there is no extra room. The 642 sits lower in the pocket. I couldn't make a bank shot like that if my life depended on it.

If I had not been using a pocket holster, where do you suppose that empty might have landed?

I have pocket carried without a holster in the distant past, but after this, I will never again trust in "I just will make it a point not to put anything else in that pocket".

 

[nachogrande]

NO LOADED WEAPONS BEYOND THIS POINT!!!

This is at the very entrance to *MY* club/range. NO CCL's/OTJ's, NO EXCEPTIONS! The only loaded guns NOT at the firing line are for ON DUTY police & range officers ONLY, & VERY strictly enforced. "But I have a concealed carry license", or "I'm on the job off duty","Good, now unload your gun at the bench and you and your CCL/OTJ go home, you won't be shooting here today".

 

[PPS1980]

This is at the very entrance to the club/range. NO CCL's, NO EXCEPTIONS! The only loaded guns NOT at the firing line are for ON DUTY police & range officers ONLY, & VERY strictly enforced. "But I have a concealed carry license", "Good, now unload your gun at the bench and you and your CCL go home".

What range? Yours or the OPs? If yours, it's irrelevant.

 

[nachogrande]

OH YEAH?

What range? Yours or the OPs? If yours, it's irrelevant.

NO, YOURS IS. NO BACKSIES. There, fixed it for ya.

 

[i1afli]

This is at the very entrance to *MY* club/range. NO CCL's/OTJ's, NO EXCEPTIONS! The only loaded guns NOT at the firing line are for ON DUTY police & range officers ONLY, & VERY strictly enforced. "But I have a concealed carry license", or "I'm on the job off duty","Good, now unload your gun at the bench and you and your CCL/OTJ go home, you won't be shooting here today".

You can't carry at your range?...ironic.

 

[TomkinsSP]

How do you shoot if "No loaded weapons beyond this point", I mean, sooner or later you kinda HAVE to have a loaded weapon beyond that sign;-)

 

[nachogrande]

NOT IRONIC, STRICT FOR SURE, AND "PRETTY" SAFE.

You can't carry at your range?...ironic.

Even with the strictness & a minimum of 4 RO's you still see a few errant bullet holes in the bench, the roof, the soda machine. SO yeah pretty much the way I like it. I think I'll be able to make it from my car to the firing line without having to pull my gat. The last thing I want is the same guy that put those holes where they didn't belong, to be CC'ing or OC'ing anywhere near me. (NOT saying that would be anyone here). It's far from the only range I've seen with the same policy.

 

[nachogrande]

Go back & RE READ

How do you shoot if "No loaded weapons beyond this point", I mean, sooner or later you kinda HAVE to have a loaded weapon beyond that sign;-)

Refer to the part about "guns NOT at the firing line". That means, you can ONLY load AT the firing line. Kinda as it should be, IMO. If you want people loading guns, or with loaded guns behind you at your range, be my guest. I won't be at your range.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Refer to the part about "guns NOT at the firing line". That means, you can ONLY load AT the firing line. Kinda as it should be, IMO. If you want people loading guns, or with loaded guns behind you at your range, be my guest. I won't be at your range.

(A) Even my blessed saint of a mother said I was a smart donkey.

(B) In my locality I just figure about one out of three people around me has a loaded gun on thier person and they are pretty much evenly distributed in front of, behind, to my left, my right and points in between. I don't sweat it, and there aren't bullet holes everywhere.

 

[Smoke]

AND THAT, BOYS AND GIRLS IS HOW YOU HIJACK A THREAD

 

[nachogrande]

ONLY 1/3?

Here in the Gunshine state, I go with the universal precaution that EVERYONE is armed. If you don't have a few bullet holes where they don't belong at your range, I'd say to look closer. Sooner or later odds are you will have some. I can't recall EVER being to a range in multiple states that didn't. It's the first thing I look for when at a new (to me) range.

 

[dr. mordo]

I'm honestly having trouble following the OP's point.

You're saying a shell fell in your pocket, and now you're worried something else will fall in your pocket and cause an ND if you don't use a pocket holster?

I would never pocket carry a striker fired gun without a holster. DAO guns I'll carry without a holster but usually don't because eventually the front sight will tear a hole in my pocket. If I dropped a 9mm shell in my pocket with my unholstered J frame, by far my primary concern would be scratching the gun, and my secondary concern would be tearing up my pocket.

That said, if you aren't normally in an environment where small objects are randomly flying around, I wouldn't worry about repeating what happened at the range.

 

[TomkinsSP]

You're saying a shell fell in your pocket, and now you're worried something else will fall in your pocket and cause an ND if you don't use a pocket holster?

That is how I interpreted it.

 

[RGVshooter]

If I had not been using a pocket holster, where do you suppose that empty might have landed?
I have pocket carried without a holster in the distant past, but after this, I will never again trust in "I just will make it a point not to put anything else in that pocket".

I'm having difficulty trying to understand the "concern" here. Are you (the O.P.) trying to stress the importance of using pocket holsters vs pocket carrying w/o a holster? Have you spent much time at shooting ranges? (no sarcasm implied) I've been shooing at indoor & outdoor ranges since the mid 80's, I can't count the number of empty cases I would find in one of my pockets, mostly shirt pockets. It happens. So if I understand this right, a empty case fell into your pants pocket and now you're worried it could have caused a accidental discharge of you pocket carried gun?

Well I mean, after each trip to the range, check your pockets for empties then before leaving

 

[Muss Muggins]

I'm having difficulty trying to understand the "concern" here. Are you (the O.P.) trying to stress the importance of using pocket holsters vs pocket carrying w/o a holster? Have you spent much time at shooting ranges? (no sarcasm implied) I've been shooing at indoor & outdoor ranges since the mid 80's, I can't count the number of empty cases I would find in one of my pockets, mostly shirt pockets. It happens. So if I understand this right, a empty case fell into your pants pocket and now you're worried it could have caused a accidental discharge of you pocket carried gun?

Well I mean, after each trip to the range, check your pockets for empties then before leaving

I believe that's what he/she is trying to say. Now, in an attempt to help better define the OP's position, imagine a shell casing or two in a pocket with a small semiauto. One of the casings lodges inside the trigger guard, the other just kind of moving around. Now, squat down. After all the moonshot crazy theories about various potential disasters I've read on this forum, that one seems pretty plausible, at least something to be concerned about . . .

 

[wingriderz]

What range? Yours or the OPs? If yours, it's irrelevant.

Yes indeed well typed. To the O P me being a pocket guy all the years working . A rule always no matter what pocket firearm I was carrying. Pocket holster always and nonthing else ever in that pocket. Now that I about 80% changed to IWB being retired that empty stong side pocket gets my non lockblade knife in rotation only.

 

[Buford57]

I'm honestly having trouble following the OP's point.

You're saying a shell fell in your pocket, and now you're worried something else will fall in your pocket and cause an ND if you don't use a pocket holster?

I would never pocket carry a striker fired gun without a holster. DAO guns I'll carry without a holster but usually don't because eventually the front sight will tear a hole in my pocket. If I dropped a 9mm shell in my pocket with my unholstered J frame, by far my primary concern would be scratching the gun, and my secondary concern would be tearing up my pocket.

That said, if you aren't normally in an environment where small objects are randomly flying around, I wouldn't worry about repeating what happened at the range.

My point, before it devolved into all the speculation, comparison of range rules, etc. was the importance of using a holster for pocket carry, regardless of firearm type. While unlikely, the possibility exists of foreign objects finding their way into the pocket and then into the trigger guard unless a holster is used. I've found plenty of empties in shirt pockets and pants cuffs, but I'd have to say in 55 years of shooting that's the first one I recall making it into a front jeans pocket.

 

[mtgianni]

Well in the West we have been warned about shooting range hijacks on ranges where you may be the only person around. Truck, weapons and gear have all been taken while someone is 100 yards downrange checking targets. As I am frequently the only one at the range where I shoot I always have a loaded gun with me capable of 100 yard accuracy.

 

[Wise_A]

Refer to the part about "guns NOT at the firing line". That means, you can ONLY load AT the firing line. Kinda as it should be, IMO. If you want people loading guns, or with loaded guns behind you at your range, be my guest. I won't be at your range.

Is it in a holster? Is the person not touching and playing with it? Okay, good to go. Protip: I wander all over the place with a gun in a holster. Loaded, too. Were the people at the supermarket last week in horrible danger because of my holstered gun?

Seriously, I'm either CCWing or OCing when at the range, because I have to go downrange and change targets and it would suck to be murdered with my own guns. I mean, I wouldn't trust a Gun-Free Zone elsewhere, right? Why the hell should I trust "No Trespassing" signs at the club, then?

 

[buzzkillbob]

Well in the West we have been warned about shooting range hijacks on ranges where you may be the only person around. Truck, weapons and gear have all been taken while someone is 100 yards downrange checking targets. As I am frequently the only one at the range where I shoot I always have a loaded gun with me capable of 100 yard accuracy.

Kinda the same with my range here. Maybe not the 100-yard accuracy, but I'm willing to put holes in my truck if needed.

 

[nachogrande]

ONLY PERSON AROUND, NOT A CHANCE.

Not a chance of that here. I'm talking about a supervised range at a club that is also open to the public where 10-12 people would be a very slow day and up to 100 shooting/waiting to shoot/watching, on a busy day. That is just the general public/member 10, 25, 50, 100 yard area. Trap/skeet/ 200 yard/ sass/ bullseye/ bowling pin/ steel challenge/ archery, with the occasional gun show or event competition it can get busy & that level of supervision is essential. They run a tight ship for a very good reason. NOBODY can come or go during a ceasefire so as to (help) keep guns from being stolen. The 4 + armed RO's (in that area alone) will keep things under control, & make for a better overall shooting experience. Sure there are more remote unsupervised areas where shooting is allowed. I don't think I'd call that a "range" exactly??? No roof or any kind of facilities, more like BLM land type of deal. They have many of the same problems you have mentioned.

 

[TomkinsSP]

... I mean, I wouldn't trust a Gun-Free Zone elsewhere, right? Why the hell should I trust "No Trespassing" signs at the club, then?

I so agree.

 

[nachogrande]

NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT TRUST.

You can obey the rules, leave on your own, or get 86'd. Just the way it is. I didn't make the rules, but am glad they exist. Indoor public ranges are the worst IMO for getting swept.

 

[Richard Simmons]

Here in the Gunshine state, I go with the universal precaution that EVERYONE is armed. If you don't have a few bullet holes where they don't belong at your range, I'd say to look closer. Sooner or later odds are you will have some. I can't recall EVER being to a range in multiple states that didn't. It's the first thing I look for when at a new (to me) range.

So if I understand you correctly you think those holes aren't from negligent discharges on the firing line but rather folks snatching their CCW pieces from their hiding places and blasting away like Cowboys in a B western?

 

[one eye joe]

This is at the very entrance to *MY* club/range. NO CCL's/OTJ's, NO EXCEPTIONS! The only loaded guns NOT at the firing line are for ON DUTY police & range officers ONLY, & VERY strictly enforced. "But I have a concealed carry license", or "I'm on the job off duty","Good, now unload your gun at the bench and you and your CCL/OTJ go home, you won't be shooting here today".

IF THOSE ARE THE RANGE RULES, THEY MUST BE OBEYED ! ! !

IF THIS IS YOUR CLUB'S RANGE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO RAISE ANY QUESTION YOU MIGHT HAVE ABOUT THE NECESSITY FOR THIS RULE, AT A CLUB MEETING, THEREBY EDUCATING YOURSELF.....

 

[TomkinsSP]

There seems to be two separate discussions going on here. (1) Use a pocket holster to keep any foreign objects off your trigger. (2) Follow the rules.

To a degree I agree with both, but neither is a substitute for just plain comon sense. So I can also agree that the fellow who occasionally slips the M640 out of his OWB holster and into the otherwise empty pocket of his London Fog is being prudent. (Raincoat blocks access to holster.) And I can agree that different ranges can have different rules, and those rules should be followed by the patrons, and then visit the one I prefer taking any restrictions into account. (I know of a rod-and-gun-club adjacent to a small airport, a cold range is called for landings and takeoffs that overfly the range. Pretty sure no puddle jumpers have ever been hit.)

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Errant cases can wind up anywhere, pants pockets, shirt pockets, any opening. Since you should never carry a pocket pistol without a pocket holster you are correct - the risk of an errant case interfering with your pocket gun is markedly reduced if it is in a holster.

As for the thread hijack- folks, you go everywhere with concealed handguns, right? So, you're going to go into a range without one? That doesn't make sense to me. Also, it doesn't make sense to me that you would touch that gun for any reason unless there is a threat. if it is loaded and in your pocket it is not a range gun that day. Period.

 

[Smoke]

My point, before it devolved into all the speculation, comparison of range rules, etc. was the importance of using a holster for pocket carry, regardless of firearm type. While unlikely, the possibility exists of foreign objects finding their way into the pocket and then into the trigger guard unless a holster is used. I've found plenty of empties in shirt pockets and pants cuffs, but I'd have to say in 55 years of shooting that's the first one I recall making it into a front jeans pocket.

Odds are a million to one but there's always that one

 

[nachogrande]

YOU ARE CORRECT UNFORTUNATELY

So if I understand you correctly you think those holes aren't from negligent discharges on the firing line but rather folks snatching their CCW pieces from their hiding places and blasting away like Cowboys in a B western?

Those holes are made from people at the firing line while being highly supervised. Even with 4 -6 RO's stuff still happens. They can't be everywhere & see every idiotic thing being done. How many more holes & where do you suppose they might be without any supervision? Thanks for the back up RO's. Now where's my London fog coat? I'm late to go see Harry Houdini live.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Odds are a million to one but there's always that one

I once got a hot shell trapped on my chest beneath my collarbone, under my body armor and under the t shirt under the body armor. My wife still doesn't believe it wasn't a hickey . . .