Pocket carry for LEO backup gun?

[NE450No2]

WC145

The only problems I had was sometimes the pocket would get worn and need to be sewed up or the pants replaced. The City furnished our uniforms so it was not a big issue. Later when pocket holsters became available I use one designed for a S&W 38, as it kept the end of the slide on the semiautos from wearing a hole in the pocket.

Actually the LW Commander and the Glock rode better in the pocket as they were flatter. Also because they were "taller" than smaller guns, they did not get turned "cattywompas", or "crosswise" in the pocket making them hard to pull out.

At first I worried about carrying the Glock 17 in a pocket, but I never had it "go off" when I did not want it to...

At times it was mildly uncomfortable physically.... But VERY comfortable Mentally.

In my 30+ years on the Job I never worked even a part of a single shift without at least 2 handguns.

 

[Lew Archer]

My wife, an LAPD officer, in her patrol days in Southwest and Rampart Divisions, carried a S&W 3913 in a Mika pocket holster in her weak side front uniform trouser pocket.

She liked the 3913 due to commonality of caliber/operation with her Beretta 92 and she shot well with it. However, she had some reliability problems which discouraged her from carrying it, so she switched to a S&W 642 in a Galco pocket holster, in the same location.

Many LAPD patrol officers utilize pocket carry for their back up gun...it is one of the most popular methods. Some use the front pocket, others the rear pocket. Mika holsters were popular--they used to be sold in the gun shop at the Academy. Mika, of course, was an LAPD officer, and a very highly regarded one at that.

The J frame is still very poplular--particularly after the Airweight versions were approved a few years ago. Many choose the Baby Glocks. However, the weight saved by carrying an Airweight (or lighter) J frame is a strong selling point for many patrol officers, given all the other equipment they carry every day, 10-12 hours a day.

 

[Bull100]

Never carried a backup in 25 years of Law enforcement and will not carry Backup now that I'm retired. There are so many reasons that I don't. But the main reason I guess is that I never knew of any officer that I ever worked with that ever had a need for one. Now that I'm retired I even have less of a reason to think I will ever need one. To tell you the truth I always had doubt as to the reasons that some officers carried a second gun especially those guns that were not authorized for the officers to carry. Carrying one gun can be uncomfortable but comforting. Carrying 2 guns or more would be uncomfortable and no more comforting than one when I think of worrying about loosing an extra, having it stolen, or attempting to find a safe place for it to be stored when I go into a place that I can't carry it. did I say it's not for me?

 

[WC145]

Never carried a backup in 25 years of Law enforcement and will not carry Backup now that I'm retired. There are so many reasons that I don't. But the main reason I guess is that I never knew of any officer that I ever worked with that ever had a need for one. Now that I'm retired I even have less of a reason to think I will ever need one. To tell you the truth I always had doubt as to the reasons that some officers carried a second gun especially those guns that were not authorized for the officers to carry. Carrying one gun can be uncomfortable but comforting. Carrying 2 guns or more would be uncomfortable and no more comforting than one when I think of worrying about loosing an extra, having it stolen, or attempting to find a safe place for it to be stored when I go into a place that I can't carry it. did I say it's not for me?

Hell, this mummified thread is old enough that I'm retired from LE now as well! I seldom carried a BUG off duty, almost never do now, but I never worked without two handguns on me and my long guns in the vehicle.

 

[Doug M.]

Never carried a second gun; agency rules forbade it, in fact. That said, never saw/see the need for one. To each, his/her own, of course.

Be safe.

*
I've seen this position asserted by command personnel from one or more Maryland agencies in some article. I was appalled. Dereliction per se. It should be a violation of your state workplace safety agency's rules and union contract, and any command officer who asserts such a position should be fired RIGHT NOW. The liability for prohibiting such a common place piece of safety gear is staggering. I can't imagine ever working without at least two pistols, plus at least one long gun.

I started with an ankle holster, set up for the off hand. It allowed me to draw discretely if someone walked up on me. (The better answer is of course to get out of the car really fast, or drive away if you have to.) As I got older and less able to get to it, I played with different options, finally settling on a chest area holster attached to my vest straps. I could reach it easily with the off hand, ok with the primary, and it worked well with a zippered jumpsuit. I worked like hell to make sure I never had to wear that silly two piece uniform, of course - a solution in search of a problem if there ever was. At least all of ours had zippers and fake buttons. If you have to wear a coat for any reason, there is a good argument for having a pocket pistol in the coat pocket, probably at the off hand side. That would be about the only time I can see pocket carry without a holster.

 

[shell627]

I have always carried at least 2 guns.Most of the time a jframe In left,offhand pocket this summer I switched to glock 42 because I shot it better weak handed.I do have to work at arranging my duty belt to leave pocket clear.

 

[t2203]

When I worked the road I carried a detective special in my left pocket. When prices climbed I swapped it for a shield. Works well in my 511's that I wear now. When we get detailed out I wear BDUs and fits nicely in the pants or the slash pockets on the shirt. I always carry it opposite of the gun hand.

 

[The Big D]

Really?

Though it should have been obvious, my 'ever carried a second gun' comment referenced my never carrying more than one (1) handgun. I often had a shotgun available...even when in mufti.

I was a LEO for thirty and one-half (30.5) years. I worked primarily in very large urban environments but was on the clock in forty-six (46) states. I was in contact with thousands of LEO's in my career. They were from many agenices...large and small. NEVER, EVER, DID I HEAR AN ACCOUNT FROM ANY LEO WHO EVER HAD THE NEED FOR A SECOND HANDGUN.

In addition, I personally never had a need for a second handgun and have been involved in many incidents requiring use of a gun. That includes both on- and off-duty scenarios. Moreover, I have never had a non-intentional misfire/fail to fire in almost forty (40) years of shooting.

To opine that command officials were derelict in their duties is simply ignorant on your part. Even more ignorant are your statements regarding safety rules and the union contract. I can assure you we were wholly in compliance.

Be safe.

*
I've seen this position asserted by command personnel from one or more Maryland agencies in some article. I was appalled. Dereliction per se. It should be a violation of your state workplace safety agency's rules and union contract, and any command officer who asserts such a position should be fired RIGHT NOW. The liability for prohibiting such a common place piece of safety gear is staggering. I can't imagine ever working without at least two pistols, plus at least one long gun.

I started with an ankle holster, set up for the off hand. It allowed me to draw discretely if someone walked up on me. (The better answer is of course to get out of the car really fast, or drive away if you have to.) As I got older and less able to get to it, I played with different options, finally settling on a chest area holster attached to my vest straps. I could reach it easily with the off hand, ok with the primary, and it worked well with a zippered jumpsuit. I worked like hell to make sure I never had to wear that silly two piece uniform, of course - a solution in search of a problem if there ever was. At least all of ours had zippers and fake buttons. If you have to wear a coat for any reason, there is a good argument for having a pocket pistol in the coat pocket, probably at the off hand side. That would be about the only time I can see pocket carry without a holster.

 

[David Sinko]

I see my old thread has been brought back from the dead. A few comments...

I tried the font pocket pants carry but it didn't work out for me. There's just too much stuff on the belt, especially now that we carry tasers. A taser serves a very valuable purpose in the grand scheme of the use of force. I'd rather have a taser on the weak side instead of a backup gun in the front pocket. Of course I DO carry a backup gun, on the front of the vest. Lately it's my 2" 625 with extra loaded moonclips in my bag.

There seems to be some hostility toward the very concept of the backup gun. Mine sees frequent use on the street, dispatching sick and injured animals in an often urban environment using shot loads or reduced loads. There has never been any collateral damage. I'm well aware that the day might come when it saves my life. Likely, no; possible, yes.

And the best news of all? I'll be retiring ASAP after the new year.

Dave Sinko

 

[KarmannGhia]

I alternate between my LCP and my 642 in my weak side front pocket (in pocket holster). I adjusted my taser position on my belt in order to have access to my left front pocket. I actually get mad at myself on the rare occasion when I forget and leave for work without my backup. I train and practice drawing with my left hand (should my strong arm/hand be disabled).

 

[WC145]

I see my old thread has been brought back from the dead. A few comments...

I tried the font pocket pants carry but it didn't work out for me. There's just too much stuff on the belt, especially now that we carry tasers. A taser serves a very valuable purpose in the grand scheme of the use of force. I'd rather have a taser on the weak side instead of a backup gun in the front pocket. Of course I DO carry a backup gun, on the front of the vest. Lately it's my 2" 625 with extra loaded moonclips in my bag.

There seems to be some hostility toward the very concept of the backup gun. Mine sees frequent use on the street, dispatching sick and injured animals in an often urban environment using shot loads or reduced loads. There has never been any collateral damage. I'm well aware that the day might come when it saves my life. Likely, no; possible, yes.

And the best news of all? I'll be retiring ASAP after the new year.

Dave Sinko

Geez, Dave, a 2" 625 on your vest? How do you explain away the giant tumor? That's worse than the guy pocket carrying Commanders and G17s, who dresses you guys?

 

[Doug M.]

NEVER, EVER, DID I HEAR AN ACCOUNT FROM ANY LEO WHO EVER HAD THE NEED FOR A SECOND HANDGUN.

In addition, I personally never had a need for a second handgun and have been involved in many incidents requiring use of a gun. That includes both on- and off-duty scenarios. Moreover, I have never had a non-intentional misfire/fail to fire in almost forty (40) years of shooting.

To opine that command officials were derelict in their duties is simply ignorant on your part. Even more ignorant are your statements regarding safety rules and the union contract. I can assure you we were wholly in compliance.

Be safe.

*
I'm a police legal advisor. Been doing LE legal in different settings for a long time. Your experiences may support your position, and I have never needed a BUG either, but I cannot imagine working without one. You are one of very few I have ever heard assert that it is not a safety violation to prohibit second handguns (and a few savvy arguments have been made for 3rd, which is where they place the J frame). I was first sworn in 1989, and as far as I can recall, never worked in a uniformed slot where I did not carry a BUG.

I've seen what our state analog to OSHA does to agencies that have unsound policies because of stupid command tricks, and even mere inattention. Big fines for allowing a uniformed officer to work without a vest; big fines for a holster that is not sufficiently secure. Big fines for unreliable or otherwise inadequate radio systems. It would be very hard for a command officer to make it through a Loudermill hearing for taking a position against ordinary, threshold minimum safety gear such as a BUG. They certainly would be savaged in a deposition in a civil suit resulting from an officer being injured. I also would never expect a reasonable civil defense attorney for an agency to attempt to defend it; there would be a settlement once that silliness became of record. I cannot imagine any qualified expert testifying for such a command officer, and if the union contract allowed for such silliness, that's disgraceful. Fortunately, I cannot recall hearing any command ranked officer, even at the most messed up agency in this state (I have one in mind, and I refer to them for cause as "The Adhocracy"), asserting that BUGs are bad. I've met a few Captains and plenty of Lts. in uniformed slots who carry BUGs, because they still remember from where they came.

 

[jimmyj]

Pocket Carry while sitting-too slow
Ankle Carry- too slow
Jimmy's Method- IWB Holster carried on vest with the metal clip clipped to vest strap. weapon is positioned on strong side with butt facing forward for draw with weak hand. (depending on the vest construction, IWB holster can be inside vest strap with metal clip on the outside of the vest strap)

 

[B Phillips]

I work plain clothes with issued glock 22 on right hip. Glock 42 in left front pocket.

 

[Kframerbluvr]

Long ago, when our policy did not flat out prohibit BUGS, I would carry a Model 38 Bodyguard Airweight in my weak side front pocket to have something to fight with just in case something happened to my issue M64. When we began issuing Glock 17 handguns in the late '80, BUGS were prohibited and still are. Off duty, I carry a old M60 or a 442 in a pocket holster as a BUG, or rarely as a primary. Even though I am plainclothes now (IA), I still insist on having a shotgun in the car. That is my "BUG" in a sense...

 

[shawn mccarver]

Most, but not all, of the LE officers I know amazingly do not carry a back-up. In almost all cases, these officers wear uniforms that are too tight to allow proper pocket carry, and even if the uniform is fitted properly, the equipment on the Sam Browne belt seems to interfere with pocket access so much that the officers cannot even put car keys in the pocket, instead hanging them on a belt prong or sticking a key behind the belt. On the strong side the holster, usually a Level 2 at least, with absolutely NO give or flexibility prevents any access to the front pocket, and on the weak side, it is a combination of the magazine pouch, handcuff case, ASP holder, Pepper Spray holder or Taser holder that prevents access.

For most of these folks, a vest holster is the only viable option, accessible when the uniform shirt is unzipped. The vest holster is fitted to the straps which secure the front and back panels of the vest. The holster is usually mounted in between the body and the straps in order to prevent it from "flopping" around during movement. Once tried, most have found this method uncomfortable, and refuse to do it on a daily basis. In addition, most find ankle holsters do not work, even the type designed for the combat type of boots they wear, and like vest carry, those who have tried it are not comfortable with that mode of carry.

This is unfortunate, as it seems to me that all officers should be allowed to carry a back up gun and they should have the ability, given issue or required equipment to have a place for that back up gun.