Pocket Carry?
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Not to make a sales pitch, but this guy has LOADS of self defense type scenarios. He boils stuff down to a 4 min video with no droning on and on and on.
Anyways, I was a fan of pocket carry until I saw this one, and while I haven't stopped pocket carrying totally, I do now see how it can be a big disadvantage for reaction time- A major consideration for me when a 1 second difference means life or death.
Once I actually did some practice draws, I see how time consuming it is.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqYdfh3CKh4[/ame]
Anyways, I was a fan of pocket carry until I saw this one, and while I haven't stopped pocket carrying totally, I do now see how it can be a big disadvantage for reaction time- A major consideration for me when a 1 second difference means life or death.
Once I actually did some practice draws, I see how time consuming it is.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqYdfh3CKh4[/ame]
Reasons I do not pocket carry:
Loss of front pocket as I front pocket carry my wallet. So both pockets are gone for keys, knife, misc etc.
Hard to move first and draw
The benefits of it that did not outweigh me losing a front pocket:
slips right in pocket and is comfortable
easy on/off
great when stationary with hands in pockets for quick draw
Loss of front pocket as I front pocket carry my wallet. So both pockets are gone for keys, knife, misc etc.
Hard to move first and draw
The benefits of it that did not outweigh me losing a front pocket:
slips right in pocket and is comfortable
easy on/off
great when stationary with hands in pockets for quick draw
Walkingwolf
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I like his videos also, no made up stuff, he uses real events to drive home the point. One of the best SD videos on the internet.
He also does what most tactikewl ninja mall trainers do not like to talk about. Situational awareness.
I will say this is video is not an indictment of pocket carry. Even with CC OWB he would have been unwise to attempt a draw. From another ASP video, never draw on a drawn gun. With SA pocket carry has big advantages, not so without SA. The victim in this video was oblivious to the two entering the business. Doors should have been locked while he was unable to attend to the business.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8o4HnBjOhc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8o4HnBjOhc[/ame]
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ultratec00
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Because of the hot summers, I typically pocket carry in a pair of cargo pants shorts. I've found it difficult to find a decent pair of shorts that have deep enough pockets and enough bagginess to effectively pocket carry without imprinting.
Personally, I don't carry less than a 9mm. Tried the Shield 9mm, looked at the LCP. Just too large for me to effectively pocket carry. The Kahr CM9 works great for pocket carry, but I hate the sharp edge on the ejection port and the recoil spring is a stiff little bugger. My pocket carry of choice is a Sig P938 in either a desantis or sticky holster. I recently added a TLR-6 to my P938 and the sticky holster is large enough to adapt.
Personally, I don't carry less than a 9mm. Tried the Shield 9mm, looked at the LCP. Just too large for me to effectively pocket carry. The Kahr CM9 works great for pocket carry, but I hate the sharp edge on the ejection port and the recoil spring is a stiff little bugger. My pocket carry of choice is a Sig P938 in either a desantis or sticky holster. I recently added a TLR-6 to my P938 and the sticky holster is large enough to adapt.
As a longtime CC, I tried the pocket carry for awhile (CM9)
if I HAD to pocket carry, I would go with a small hammerless 38s nub (Ruger or S&W)
There are too many cases, where even a small semi is going to be tough to draw.
Research the Tuller drill. This drill has the shooter try to get a pistol drawn and fired with a Badguy, coming at you from 7 yards.
Many cops have trouble with this on an OWB carry
Imagine having to fish out a pistol from a pocket........ under stress
Many people wouldnt think of carrying a firearm if it were only 95% reliable
If you pocket carry, draw from the pocket, with your hand NOT in the pocket, really fast with an unloaded weapon 20 times
My guess is, you will bobble the draw at least once in 20 tries
Imagine if you are jumped on from behind and the fight goes to the ground........ (Supposedly something like 80% of all fights end up on the ground) If you are on the ground, you ARENT going to get to a pocket carry.
Many of us are in a car at least part of a day.......... Try sitting down and quickly getting to a pocket carry...... (Film it, it will be a laugh)
Because it can fit in a pocket, doesn't make it a good choice. The corner back of semi autos (the 90 degree angle), makes a snag a high possibility in a stressful situation. The hammerless revolvers tend to draw quicker from a pocket
For me, I went to a shield in 40 IWB awhile ago, and let others do the pocket thing.
if its your only choice, you gotta do, what you gotta do
if I HAD to pocket carry, I would go with a small hammerless 38s nub (Ruger or S&W)
There are too many cases, where even a small semi is going to be tough to draw.
Research the Tuller drill. This drill has the shooter try to get a pistol drawn and fired with a Badguy, coming at you from 7 yards.
Many cops have trouble with this on an OWB carry
Imagine having to fish out a pistol from a pocket........ under stress
Many people wouldnt think of carrying a firearm if it were only 95% reliable
If you pocket carry, draw from the pocket, with your hand NOT in the pocket, really fast with an unloaded weapon 20 times
My guess is, you will bobble the draw at least once in 20 tries
Imagine if you are jumped on from behind and the fight goes to the ground........ (Supposedly something like 80% of all fights end up on the ground) If you are on the ground, you ARENT going to get to a pocket carry.
Many of us are in a car at least part of a day.......... Try sitting down and quickly getting to a pocket carry...... (Film it, it will be a laugh)
Because it can fit in a pocket, doesn't make it a good choice. The corner back of semi autos (the 90 degree angle), makes a snag a high possibility in a stressful situation. The hammerless revolvers tend to draw quicker from a pocket
For me, I went to a shield in 40 IWB awhile ago, and let others do the pocket thing.
if its your only choice, you gotta do, what you gotta do
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As to pocket holsters, these people make great versions: Pocket Concealment Systems, Inc.: Pocket Holsters
Scorpion520AZ
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I agree with most of DB's comments above - with a couple clarifications.
The key to defeating an assailant in a Tueller Drill is to get off the X. As originally noted in 1983, an assailant with a knife on average can cover 21 ft in about 1.5 seconds - which is about how long it takes the average officer to draw a weapon from an open carry duty holster. At best that means the officer will get a shot on target just as the assailant gets the knife into the officer. Any closer than that and the officer won't get a shot off at all.
However, that assumes the officer is just standing there like an idiot. From 20ish feet, in order to reach you in time, an assailant has to run at you full bore, and if he's doing that you can use his inertia against him.
Side step 90 degrees away from his line of advance (to his weak hand side if you have the option, since it forces him to reach across his body with the knife). That forces him to turn, and it takes time and distance for him to change directions at speed. After the first side step, if you just keep pivoting and side stepping 90 degrees away from his current direction, it'll take him 4 to 5 seconds to reach contact position with you, and in that time you'll be able to draw and get 5-6 shots into him before you'll need to defend against the knife - assuming he's still able and willing to press the attack.
That really makes the Tueller Drill only relevant if you're in a confined space, such as a narrow hallway. Even then, you can step back and increase the distance and time until he reaches a contact position.
If the assailant is very close when the threat is presented, it won't matter where you are carrying, you'll need to honor the threat and block the knife attack, until you've got the time or space to draw.
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Pocket holsters are essential to effective pocket carry, but the pocket also makes a critical difference. As DB points out, front pockets are useless when you are seated. However a front pocket that is too tight is useless even hen standing. Back pockets are limited to small semi-autos, and have similar limitations if they are too snug, or too deep. And if too shallow, they won't fully conceal the pistol.
My preference is to carry a small backup pistol in a pocket. It can be used as a back up after being drawn from the holster, or it can be removed in the holster and handed off to another shooter. In both cases, a proper pocket holster is essential, as is practicing with it, and understanding exactly what pockets will work and not work with it. Due to the significant limitations, I don't advise pocket carry as the primary carry method.
The key to defeating an assailant in a Tueller Drill is to get off the X. As originally noted in 1983, an assailant with a knife on average can cover 21 ft in about 1.5 seconds - which is about how long it takes the average officer to draw a weapon from an open carry duty holster. At best that means the officer will get a shot on target just as the assailant gets the knife into the officer. Any closer than that and the officer won't get a shot off at all.
However, that assumes the officer is just standing there like an idiot. From 20ish feet, in order to reach you in time, an assailant has to run at you full bore, and if he's doing that you can use his inertia against him.
Side step 90 degrees away from his line of advance (to his weak hand side if you have the option, since it forces him to reach across his body with the knife). That forces him to turn, and it takes time and distance for him to change directions at speed. After the first side step, if you just keep pivoting and side stepping 90 degrees away from his current direction, it'll take him 4 to 5 seconds to reach contact position with you, and in that time you'll be able to draw and get 5-6 shots into him before you'll need to defend against the knife - assuming he's still able and willing to press the attack.
That really makes the Tueller Drill only relevant if you're in a confined space, such as a narrow hallway. Even then, you can step back and increase the distance and time until he reaches a contact position.
If the assailant is very close when the threat is presented, it won't matter where you are carrying, you'll need to honor the threat and block the knife attack, until you've got the time or space to draw.
---
Pocket holsters are essential to effective pocket carry, but the pocket also makes a critical difference. As DB points out, front pockets are useless when you are seated. However a front pocket that is too tight is useless even hen standing. Back pockets are limited to small semi-autos, and have similar limitations if they are too snug, or too deep. And if too shallow, they won't fully conceal the pistol.
My preference is to carry a small backup pistol in a pocket. It can be used as a back up after being drawn from the holster, or it can be removed in the holster and handed off to another shooter. In both cases, a proper pocket holster is essential, as is practicing with it, and understanding exactly what pockets will work and not work with it. Due to the significant limitations, I don't advise pocket carry as the primary carry method.
Charlier26
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I pocket carry my Kahr P380 in a Nemesis holster when I don't have something on that covers a 4 O'clock IWB.
See point by point response above. A general comment is that comfort, ease of drawing, printing etc are a function of how tight the pants are and size of pocket. Normal pants good. Tight jeans less so. Cargo pockets ... all good.
* I've also pocket carried with the Kahr PM9 which is larger since it is a 9mm, a Recluse holster made for it, but that is even more dependent on looser pants/pocket. No tight jeans.
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