Possible 4th gen?

[Shorty 45 MK2]

My mind was wandering the other day and got to thinking that it sure would be nice if S&W would start making a DA/SA pistol again, which got me thinking about all the "why won't S&W make the 3rd gens anymore?" threads. Which got me thinking about the other gun makers who make DA/SA pistols still...

The general belief seems to be that the majority of the handgun buying public wants polymer pistols that are striker fired because they are cheaper and DA/SA is to hard to learn.

Soooo... why can't S&W make the "4th gens" with polymer frames like Beretta has done with the PX4 series and SIG with the P250 and SP2202? Sure they would not be as classy as the older guns but since they would be more for CCW the "plastic" frames would not be a bad thing.

I'm sure that I'm not the first to think of this, but is the demand for striker fired pistols that big? S&W in theory could still use the 3rd gen uppers so there is some cost savings, right?

I'd sure spring for a "4th gen" '4513" or "3913" probably even sell my beloved Blackhawk to get one and put the good old 4516 on HD duty.

Anybody else? Sorry if this has been beat to death google didn't even turn up much.

 

[6actual]

I'm with ya on that, FN makes a nice poly pistol that's DA/SA in the FNX series, its not the plastic frame that bothers me so bad as is the mushy trigger, horrible reset, striker fired with no re-cock capability. If FN can do it at a profit, why not S&W?

 

[mauser9]

Well I for one would love to see Third Gens produced again with no change! Glad I toured the plant back in 2000. Went to their range and got to shoot the 3913 Tactical Series. Like to see the Chief Special CS series come back in blued version. Probably expensive but bet they would sell. Just my rant!

 

[Shorty 45 MK2]

Well I for one would love to see Third Gens produced again with no change! Glad I toured the plant back in 2000. Went to their range and got to shoot the 3913 Tactical Series. Like to see the Chief Special CS series come back in blued version. Probably expensive but bet they would sell. Just my rant!

I'd love for the 3rd gens to come back as well, but since most of the post concerning that cite cost being the reason S&W won't bring them back I look at it as the lesser of two evils.

 

[Shorty 45 MK2]

I'm with ya on that, FN makes a nice poly pistol that's DA/SA in the FNX series, its not the plastic frame that bothers me so bad as is the mushy trigger, horrible reset, striker fired with no re-cock capability. If FN can do it at a profit, why not S&W?

I forgot about FN making a DA/SA pistol, don't they have one that holds 15+1 of .45? Bet that thing is a beast.

 

[6actual]

I forgot about FN making a DA/SA pistol, don't they have one that holds 15+1 of .45? Bet that thing is a beast.

FNX 45 is very accurate and soft shooting 45 acp, but a little big for CCW. The FNX40 is smaller but still a fairly big weapon. all FN's compact versions default to striker fired so I kinda feel they missed the boat to really shine in the field of current production compacts.

 

[44wheelman]

So an M&P with a hammer ?...I'm in.

I have one plastic gun...an H&K USP in .40, but have been after a USP Elite in .45 or a MK23.

I got hung up on 1911's & Performance Center guns, so I haven't got there yet.

 

[GaryS]

The M&P line is designed to compete with Glock for the lucrative LEO market on a cost basis. That's a much bigger market than the civilian market, which we all know.

The other big market is the 1911 pattern market.

For the M&P guns, the slide/barrel machining is the big cost. For the 1911 market, there is the forging of the frame and the slide/barrel machining.

That combination, plus the forging and then machining of revolver frames take up most of the CNC capacity S&W has.

Since there is a very, very, limited market for 3rd Gens in the LEO market, there is no incentive for S&W to make them.

The "good" thing about Glocks and M&Ps is that they are perfect for LE use because they are easy to shoot, cheap to buy and maintain, and perfect for people who have to carry a gun as part of their job, but aren't gun people. Most LEO agencies have bare minimum qualifications for hand gun proficiency and DA/SA guns require more practice than either the M&P or Glock. Same with revolvers, but very few LE agencies authorize those these days, so it's moot.

Add all of that together and it's more than just designing a polymer frame for the 3rd Gen guns.

OTOH, as we've all noted before Sig and others still make all metal guns, so it can be done.

 

[P33v3]

Frankly, I've been disappointed with S&W's offerings/choices the past 2 Shot Shows with the exception of the model 69. While I like the idea of a polymer/steel combo in the style of the 3rd Gens, I expect to see them around the same time I can comfortably spit a rat.

 

[HCH]

So what's stopping anyone from duplicating the 3rd. Gen. design in a low labor rate country?
Patents?
Import laws?
Saturated gun market?

 

[GaryS]

Take your pick. Even the threat of litigation from a company like S&W can make a smaller company rethink their position.

The other two might be lessor considerations, but they are still considerations.

So what's stopping anyone from duplicating the 3rd. Gen. design in a low labor rate country?
Patents?
Import laws?
Saturated gun market?

 

[gmiller0737]

As far as I know S&W is Still making Melonited 4566TSW's for The West Virginia State Police,Why could they not at least offer some Performance Center 3rd Generation Pistols Not everyone has intrest in Plastic/polymer Guns, Looks someone in charge @Wv. State Police has their head screwed on right,I believe I saw somewhere that they were paying somewhat north of $700 per 4566.

 

[tim c]

Plastic frames HUMMmmmmm just think what TTSH would say it would still have no soul

 

[6actual]

As far as I know S&W is Still making Melonited 4566TSW's for The West Virginia State Police,Why could they not at least offer some Performance Center 3rd Generation Pistols Not everyone has intrest in Plastic/polymer Guns, Looks someone in charge @Wv. State Police has their head screwed on right,I believe I saw somewhere that they were paying somewhat north of $700 per 4566.

Good on the Wv State police, If I had to be in harms way I would much prefer a 4566 over any Glock or M&P offering. I'd say it looks like desk bound bean counter REMF's dont run things for their dept.

 

[GaryS]

To paraphrase Larry Fine, "They'll do it, but their heart ain't in it."

WVSP and I think CHP still insist on 3rd Gen guns. NYPD did until fairly recently. There aren't many other departments that are big enough to force S&W to make a gun that they'd rather forget about.

As far as I know S&W is Still making Melonited 4566TSW's for The West Virginia State Police,Why could they not at least offer some Performance Center 3rd Generation Pistols Not everyone has intrest in Plastic/polymer Guns, Looks someone in charge @Wv. State Police has their head screwed on right,I believe I saw somewhere that they were paying somewhat north of $700 per 4566.

 

[mauser9]

Guess current owners of Third Generation models can expect to make a healthy profit now and down the road for these desirable models if they choose to sell. On the other hand collectors searching for discontinued models can expect to pay a considerable amount for a minty piece.

 

[TTSH]

Plastic frames HUMMmmmmm just think what TTSH would say. It would still have no soul

Plastic 4th Gens??? I think S&W would tell you that they're already making them. Only S&W calls them their "M&P" line.

And no, they don't have a soul. If you leave out the soul, you can make them cheaper and sell them cheaper. That's what S&W wants to do. You want something from S&W approaching their old 3rd Gen quality? I guess it would have to be a 1911. Strange but true.

The very thought of a classic 3rd Gen slide sitting atop a plastic M&P-style frame makes me physically ill. I don't think that I could take that. I'd probably have to give up collecting for good and then take up bird watching. At least my wife would be happy. Plus I could stop selling my blood just to pay for this expensive hobby.

Would I buy a 3rd Gen "clone" made out of plastic? Highly doubtful.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I find it funny that folks say that metal frame pistols have no market.

Sig Sauer and Beretta are not only continuing to make metal framed DA/SA guns but they are designing new ones and bringing back old ones into production.

S&W of today is a shadow of it's former self.

 

[6actual]

At this time I'm just hoping the aftermarket industry starts making parts for whats currently out there, likely that somebody will eventually.

 

[nocents]

this post got me thinking why I don't like polymer guns....and I came to the realization that it's not the polymer frame I dislike...it's the crappy triggers....I don't like STRIKERS......I have a polymer frame gun that I like a lot and shoot really well...but it is a DA/SA hammer fired...Sig pro 2022....a S&W 4513 polymer frame DA/SA hammer version.....I'm there