Held onto that Guns & Ammo July issue with the Single Stack 9 MM shootout by the way. If anyone is considering a purchase of one of the 10 models reviewed I will be glad to post the results. They used 147 grain ammo in the tests.
Possible 4th gen?
- Thread starter Shorty 45 MK2
- Start date
I hope you don't just go by my half-***ed words of wisdom.
All I own right now in Sig is a .22 Mosquito. 
Get the learned opinions of folks who are real Sig owners and Sig aficionados and Sig lovers before jumping to any conclusions. 
I happen to find the flat black finishes attractive but not very durable. As one LGS salesman described them earlier today, they look and behave pretty much like flat black Krylon paint.
But remember, I am a bright stainless steel finish 3rd Gen kind of guy, so I may be prejudiced. I've only been shopping used Sigs and $600 to $650 is apparently considered a good price for a used P220 in decent shape. Same for a P226 pretty much. That's a little outside my typical $400-$500 3rd Gen target range and above the good wife's "No Wife Approval Required" threshold... so it would have to be one awfully nice gun for me to be able to consider it and hope to get her approval.
You really have to do your own research and decide for yourself. Sigs still confuse the heck out of me... but apparently not so much for others.
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Thanks for feedback TTSH. Had the feelin new metal Sigs may be approaching the $1000 figure. Seemed to be the rage with guys I worked with in late 80s or early 90s. Believe it was the 225 or 226 models in 9MM. Like you am primarily a Third Gen fan and like the Tactical Series as well as the CS line. Glad I got to take a tour of S&W back in 2000. Was impressed with all the pistols in a caged area that were ready for shipping. No could not take a tour of the caged area unfortunately. At the end of tour we all received a tie clip with plastic gun attached to it. That was the only plastic gun I recall seeing that day.
One of the funny things about Sigs is that you don't see sale prices printed very often, if at all. I think it has something to do with their dealer agreement.
But you may be right. All I know is that I could never afford a brand new P220 or P226... although I'd stretch my budget and spousal relationship to the limit and beyond for a new or really nice used P227. There are some funny stories I could relate to you about Sigs and Sig people...
... but I'll pass for now for the sake of politeness and brevity. Do your research and draw your own conclusions. That's what I recommend! 
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
Let me know when Smith & Wesson does too.... because the two piece barrel, lawyer lock, knock offs that are made today sure as hell aren't what was made then.
A current production Model 66 is nothing like my Model 66-2 from the early 1980s.
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
Is Sig really competitive in the US market against the likes of S&W and Glock?
Personally, I don't care that much about Sig. I've always said I'd like to buy a new P227 if/when they ever become MA-compliant. I've considered the P220 (mainly used ones) in the absence of a MA-compliant P227. I like the P226 now with the thinner grips, but there are other reasons I'll probably never own one.
I only ask because some folks say that Sig proves that S&W could go back to making all-metal handguns (other than 1911's) and do just fine on them in terms of sales and return on investment, etc. for the stockholders. I don't know if that's true or not, but I question whether Sig is the proof that S&W is making a mistake not pursuing the all-metal pistol market beyond its 1911's.
Oh yes, Sig Sauer is making a killing in the US Market right now. With their traditional DA/SA guns in such demand that they've made new models and are bringing back old models.
The Sig P228 for example is back as the M11-A1.
Here is an original production P228.
Sig ceased production after they designed the P229 (built around the .40 S&W). Well, demand has been soooooo high on the used market, especially with the German Police Surplus Guns that Sig saw it as a chance to cash in and make more money... hence the M11-A1. They even are marketing it under the US Military Designation of the P228.
Somehow Sig Sauer figured out how to cash in on that and now are bring back the P225 into production.
If Sig wasn't a major player in the market then the P227 wouldn't have been adopted by the Pennsylvania State Police and the Indiana State Police.
Okay, that's good to hear.
Last year was a tough year for them with lots of layoffs. Sales of some Sigs are great around here this year while some are painfully slow. I'm sure it varies quite a bit by state/area. In MA, we don't have access to all of them, so that's a factor too. Shows that the Pennsylvania State Police and the Indiana State Police have good taste... and, apparently, the political clout to get their respective states to foot the bill.
Good for them!
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Arik
Member
The Sig 228 never came back. The M11 is a 229. The 229 was made originally to handle the 40/357sig rounds that the 228 couldn't. The slide was milled, extractor became external and the mag well widened. The 228 was dropped and the 229 was made in 2 flavors. A narrower one for 9mm and a wider and milled slide for the 40/357sig. Then to simplify things Sig just made the milled version of the 229 in 9mm as well, dropping the narrower one. The old 228 mags don't work well in the new 229 9mm and the new mags don't work at all in the old 228. The M11 and it's civilian version the m11-a1 are 229. The differences between the civilian 229 and the m11-a1 is that the M11-a1 has phosphate coated internals, Sig lite night sights and a UID label. That's it. It's still the same 229 from way back.
The use of 227 in the Pa state Police came from several "accidental" shootings by officers while cleaning their Glock 21. One officer "accidentally" shot his pregnant wife in the head. This went to court and he was found innocent. Whether it was truly an accident or murder only he knows. So to have a safer weapon they went to Sig and ironically, while at training to transition from Glock to the "safer" Sig one training officer shot and killed another officer.....accidentally!!! Shot him in the chest.
Prior to the G21 in 45acp the PSP used G37 in 45GAP. One of a very few departments to use that and the costs added up
The use of 227 in the Pa state Police came from several "accidental" shootings by officers while cleaning their Glock 21. One officer "accidentally" shot his pregnant wife in the head. This went to court and he was found innocent. Whether it was truly an accident or murder only he knows. So to have a safer weapon they went to Sig and ironically, while at training to transition from Glock to the "safer" Sig one training officer shot and killed another officer.....accidentally!!! Shot him in the chest.
Prior to the G21 in 45acp the PSP used G37 in 45GAP. One of a very few departments to use that and the costs added up
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One of the "older" 228 is one of the few Sigs I would like to have.......
didn't know about the magazine issues..... good to know...(Arik.. thanks for the info.) making me rethink the 228 thing........
Weren't the German Police guns ...... all 225/P6s?
Had a 225 years ago...great gun and felt great in the hand...... but the 3913 was smaller and got the concealed carry slot........ and the single stack 9mm open carry slot was already filled by the Beretta 92 Compact Type M
didn't know about the magazine issues..... good to know...(Arik.. thanks for the info.) making me rethink the 228 thing........
Weren't the German Police guns ...... all 225/P6s?
Had a 225 years ago...great gun and felt great in the hand...... but the 3913 was smaller and got the concealed carry slot........ and the single stack 9mm open carry slot was already filled by the Beretta 92 Compact Type M
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Arik
Member
You can still get the old original mags and Mec-Gar makes them in 13 and 15 rounders. The old mags are thinner because the grip of the 228 was narrower. They do lock in the 229 and do feed but because there is wiggle room it's not ideal for using as a SD mag. Slight movement can cause feeding issues. The 229 mags are thicker and don't fit in the 228 mag well dispite being the same design. So that's not possible at all
I had a beautiful W. German 228 this past winter but the grip was just weird. I can't explain it. The 226 is fine but cut down to 228 feels odd. I sold it.
P6 were originally police yes. They also used 239 and to some extent the 220
I had a beautiful W. German 228 this past winter but the grip was just weird. I can't explain it. The 226 is fine but cut down to 228 feels odd. I sold it.
P6 were originally police yes. They also used 239 and to some extent the 220
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44wheelman
Member
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- Feb 2, 2006
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The new SIG mags.... a learning experience for me.
I'm at the lgs with my old 229 (.40); one of the store's other frequent shoppers comes to pick up his new M11 with the 229-1 15 rnd mags. I tried the mags in my 229, they fit. Cool I order 2 mags for my 228 based on the fact I could interchange my 228 & my cousins old 229 (9mm) mags....I found I was mistaken when they finally came in, and I took them home. but.... Oh well, so just had to go buy a like new 229-1 9mm slightly used on auction arms for $515, just so I didn't have to take the mags back. Talk about a lame excuse to buy a gun... but it was a great deal.
I'm at the lgs with my old 229 (.40); one of the store's other frequent shoppers comes to pick up his new M11 with the 229-1 15 rnd mags. I tried the mags in my 229, they fit. Cool I order 2 mags for my 228 based on the fact I could interchange my 228 & my cousins old 229 (9mm) mags....I found I was mistaken when they finally came in, and I took them home. but.... Oh well, so just had to go buy a like new 229-1 9mm slightly used on auction arms for $515, just so I didn't have to take the mags back. Talk about a lame excuse to buy a gun... but it was a great deal.
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Sig lost me when the frame rails fell off my new 226, you can have them.
Arik
Member
That was the infamous time between 2004/05 and 2010/11. Rails weren't the only things falling off. Secret Service canceled their Sig contract when they couldn't get past 10k rounds without major breakage and frame cracking
Actually mine was purchased in 1988, so it appears they have a long history of this. And the slide turned a shade of purple compared to the frame.
S&W stock price up 300+ % in the past 4 years. Hardly failing.
PD's switching?
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/243457-police-switching-m-ps.html
PD's switching?
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/243457-police-switching-m-ps.html
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