powder coated bullets pt2

[venomballistics]

Last night I shot some out of the 308. I upped the charge to 12 grains Unique like Lyman recommended for the potentially accurate load. I shot a few 5 shot groups at 25 yards off a decent rest and got 5/8 to 1 1/8" groups. These should be going around 1800 fps acording to the book. Its probably close. No gas check! Tonight my girlfriend is going to shoot that 308 in a hunter silhouette match. I am shooting it too. I have 100 rounds loaded up on the Dillion.

The no lead part is great for me. It saves time and the cost is miminal.

I also ordered some 158 grain RNFP 30 caliber from another compay to try in the 1917 enfield.

David I'm having a ball R.

I see that cast meets Unique load again.
Fine load as it may be, I suspect that its finally outlived its purpose.
Get serious with these new pills. push em for real and share the results.
Im still not sure how far into FMJ turf we can go yet, but I'm not about to be the only one doing it.

Im trying 3031 loads next, to be followed by slower rates as well as 4227, which incidentally seem to be on the shelves lately

 

[Maximumbob54]

I tried IMR 3031 with some 8mm Mauser loads and while I had zero leading in the bore I had at best what you would call a shotgun pattern at a whole whopping twenty five yards. I suspect that while the coating held the bullet together the alloy hardness didn't withstand the rifling torque and the bullet's spin was chaos. Maybe, maybe not. I just tried the starting load of a jacketed bullet minus 10%. I have a few more loaded up at starting level and then I think one gr more but haven't had time to finish that little experiment. Really though I think it's more a matter of you just can't push a lead bullet of any hardness that hard. The hardest lead bullet is still going to be softer than any jacketed bullet.

Now that being said I do wonder what a PC'ed jackteted bullet would do.

 

[Moonman]

Maximumbob54,

To learn one must experiment in uncharted territory,

just remember ole' ELMER KEITH blew up a few firearms testing new ground.

 

[David R]

More Results. Tonight we shot Hunters silhouette. I cleaned all 10 pigs @ 50 yards with the 308 using 115 gr powder coated bullets and 12 grains Unique. We had a blast. Almost 100 rounds and no fouling I can see right now. My girlfriend also got 10 pigs at 50 yards with 10 shots. I need to cut them back a little, they leave a good ding in the silhouettes. Maybe 10 grains red dot.....

David

Edit, no doubt you can smell paint burning.

 

[venomballistics]

More Results. Tonight we shot Hunters silhouette. I cleaned all 10 pigs @ 50 yards with the 308 using 115 gr powder coated bullets and 12 grains Unique. We had a blast. Almost 100 rounds and no fouling I can see right now. My girlfriend also got 10 pigs at 50 yards with 10 shots. I need to cut them back a little, they leave a good ding in the silhouettes. Maybe 10 grains red dot.....

David

Edit, no doubt you can smell paint burning.

Yeah, I could catch a whiff of that once in a while.
It's nothing compared to the stench of ez plate spray, an early experiment with friction reducing paint.
Smelled like driving flat out on the highway to hell with your brakes on fire.

 

[venomballistics]

man ... I really need to reorganize the shop.
if its a tool, and you need it, its not there
so this took a lot longer to do than it should have. but I got it done.

Its some of the things you pick up on a lark that really wake you up from your misconceptions.
one of those things was the 30 cal Hornady 110 grain JSP.
it was the ultimate bunny buster.
the results were a chunk of skin flopping on the ground within a cloud of crimson mist.
I grew quite fond of its terminal savagery, so I rendered it as a cast hollow point mold, designed specifically for coating.

sexy little things aint they

 

[David R]

My best so far is 1 1/8" @ 50 yards for 5 shots with a 308 Using Bayou 115 gr 30 cal carbine bullets powder coated gold.

One more group like that and I will load all empty brass.

David

David

 

[David R]

last night I shot the rifle at 100 yards. I fired 5 and 5 of different OAL.

Both groups were 3.5". I will take that. Now loading all brass in sight. 12 grains Unique, 115 Bayou powder coated bullet and large pistol primer.

We use this gun for Hunter silhouette. Center fire rifle is shot quite a bit here. A few guys love lever guns with 38 sp or 357. This is a stevens bolt action 308 with a 4-12 AO scope.

When I fit the bullets to the gun I smoked the bullet, and chambered it. The lead was perfect. It wiped the smoke off the bullet and did not scratch the paint. This was the same within 1 turn of the seater plug. This shows me the bullet is a perfect fit in this gun.

No fouling that I know of.

This all makes shooting a scoped center fire rifle cost the same as a handgun.

Going to try other powder coated bullets to see if something will work in my 1917 enfield. These 30 cal carbine bullets can only hold a sheet of paper at 25 yards with this gun. I have shot cast out of the Enfield. I sized bullets to .310 this could be the difference The ones I am using right now are 0.3085"

When the time comes, I will also try the 115 gr powder coated in my TC contender cal 32-20. It has a .308 bore.

David

 

[venomballistics]

Time to dump off some range findings.
I think I found the red line of the harbor freight coating.
Seems to be right around 2500 fps estimated.
This is in a rife, without use of gas checks.
Leading patterns are different from traditional lubricant, focusing on the edges of the rifling, and not filling in the grooves.
When pc fails, it's still not as dreadful as traditional methods.
Perhaps through alloys and different powder coat powders, we might be able to negotiate for another 200 fps, however, 2500 plain based represents a significant gain, even over gas checked cast using traditional lube.
This puts the DIY range fodder up into a class perfectly capable of being a very competent field load for many hunting situations.
The pistol side of things nearly need not be explored much beyond the usual quest for accurate loads, and perhaps some velocity gains offered by other powders, such as nylon or Teflon based coating.
While hotly debated, the use of coated bullets can represent more potent loads for SD. Remember that energy is a function of mass times the square of velocity. Any change in velocity is effectively counted twice in the determination of total yield.
50 fps in a 45 ACP is somewhat significant, and 100 fps would be clearly significant.
By all means, search for it.

 

[venomballistics]

From the random thought department.
Every so often, someone drops in asking about the nady dreaded carnival load of a round ball over some charge of bullseye.
It soon fades away in the dashed hopes brought about by a lead lined bore, simply because there is no way to give them lube.
We found the key to making it work here, with coatings in general.
There is no reason it won't work now.
Have some cheap fun.

 

[fatman73]

Powder coating has it's lovers and haters. I do it and like it started with the piglet method now just a dry shake and bake. Works can argue with that,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[samdweezel05]

Just and idea here, if you size and lube your bullets correctly you won't have leading issues. I have cast bullets from pure lead all the way to pure linotype and don't get leading. I push them upwards of 2,000fps. I will be trying some copper plating in the near future for higher velocity loads.

 

[Moonman]

samdweezel105,

The coatings are CLEAN as in NO WAXY LUBE on you, your dies, equipment or

MELTING OUT IN HIGH AMBIENT AIR TEMPS. (Summer Trunk Temps)

Conventional Lubes SMOKE, the coatings HAVE LOW TO NO SMOKE.

Many ACTION PISTOL or COWBOY shooters are enjoying the LOW SMOKE deal.


CLEAN BARRELS are results from the coated bullets either the HI-TEK process or the POWDER COATING process.

Technology is moving on, beyond your present state projectile shooting.

 

[venomballistics]

Just and idea here, if you size and lube your bullets correctly you won't have leading issues. I have cast bullets from pure lead all the way to pure linotype and don't get leading. I push them upwards of 2,000fps. I will be trying some copper plating in the near future for higher velocity loads.

How's straight wheel weight lead up to 2500 fps with no gas checks, and only slight leading at this failure point of the powder coated 308.
I never got that high of a velocity with conventional lubes and checks.

Not much else to think about with wax, it's over and plated might be in trouble too.

 

[Jaymo]

I got my airsoft BBs, polypropylene tub, and powder.
I'm ready to give this a shot.
To me, it's worth it to be able to shoot cast WW boolits through a gas operated semiauto rifle without fouling the gas system.
Then there's the whole "soft lead HPs (Lyman Devastators) through a handgun at high velocities" thing.
I think I'll coat some HBWCs. And run them upside down with a felt wad under them. I want to see just how wide and flat they can get.
Guess I'll load them in .357 Mag cases at Mag velocities.
Giggles and grins, that's all. No other reason.

Question: Do I have to use the black Crosman BBs?
I bought non-black, generic airsoft BBs.
Will they work as well?

I'm ready to load my cast Lee .44 208 grain TL wadcutters to some .44 mag velocities.

 

[venomballistics]

word is, and rumor has it that what you have will work, however the crossman black seems to lead the pack in static generation.
One guy was starting to turn out some very promising results tumbling the bullets while hot.

Still, all roads lead to an ES gun.

I have a Lee 208 WC mold myself.
these things never did well above 1000 FPS. they start to tumble, which is an issue no coating can solve.
It will, however, make them a joy to load.
Some things beg to be pushed, others, not so much.
Wad Cutters ... not so much.

My lab, as it were, is branching off into two different directions.
Question one, is with the right coating and a good hard alloy, just how fast can we go? that'll be a rifle only experiment. No handgun can get to where the HF powder and WW lead combo made it to.
next question, is just how soft can we go while maintaining about a 1500 - 1600 FPS limit, without failure.
Soft lead anything at magnum levels will make for an expanding bullet HP or not.
If it can make it on merit of the coating ... that's a significant win.
fast production, as one would like in blasting ammo, with an upgrade and no real added expense.

 

[novalty]

I should never have opened this thread. Too many irons in fire already. I should never have opened this thread.

 

[venomballistics]

I should never have opened this thread. Too many irons in fire already. I should never have opened this thread.

Welcome to the dark side. We have brownies.
We also have sex drugs and rock and roll, but we usually don't tell you that till you are here for a while.

 

[novalty]

Well once I recover from this darn "Blue press" bleeding me dry with caliber conversions. I will probably look into the PC thing a little more. Right now I am not having any leading issues with my 9mm or 45acp cast bullets traditionally sized on a LAM2 and lubed with Randy Rat's Tac1. Concern for leading is the main reason why I have not got into casting my rifle projectiles.

 

[venomballistics]

It's fairly straight forward.
If you have an air compressor, a coating gun can go from 60 to 100. The harbor freight powder is about 6 a pound. Add a toaster oven and you're set.
If you don't have the air compressor, go with the hi tek system, but get a little more spendy with the toaster oven, as it seems to be more temperature sensitive.
You'll shake off the Kool aid stains soon enough.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Just and idea here, if you size and lube your bullets correctly you won't have leading issues. I have cast bullets from pure lead all the way to pure linotype and don't get leading. I push them upwards of 2,000fps. I will be trying some copper plating in the near future for higher velocity loads.

Copper plated for rifle is strictly reduced loads only. I tried several of them and if you aren't using Red Dot, Unique, Trail Boss, 2400, or something similar then you will be pushing them beyond what the plating can stand. All the plated bullets I've seen are soft swaged bullets. The soft core inside the paper thin plating just can't handle much velecity.

Now change this into a harder alloy coated bullet and you can start to push them. I've quenched some #2 alloy after coating them and run them through an 8mm Mauser at jacketed velocity and there was ZERO leading which means the coating held up. I had terrible accuracy though so I'm thinking the bullet hardness just wasn't up to the task. Still though since it held together that tells me it's worth a little more time and effort.

 

[David R]

I have pushed coated plain base over 2000 fps. Accuracy fell off just before 2000. Running them now at 1850 fps. This one bullet in one rifle.

 

[littlerocknroller]

Clor coated bullets for handguns

Hi guys,
I live in Germany and do a lot of shooting 9mm, .45Auto, .357 Magn. and .44 Magnum. I use reduced target loads and full house loads with the slow burners like N 110 or the classic 2400. Since about 2 years I only use ARES bullets. You can google for the name and will find the German importer. These bullet come in all kind of colors and the do perform perfect. Top scores, uniform speed and nearly no fowling left in the bore. I know that they are shipped to the USA, but I do not know by whom. The guy I buy from is the sole importer or the stuff made in Slowenia and he does IPSC shooting. He has shipped many thousands to your country. Have a look at the ARES website and you see what they have.
Rainer

P.S: If you need lighther bullets for the .357 they make the 9mm 125 grains bullet in .358 as well.

 

[venomballistics]

I have pushed coated plain base over 2000 fps. Accuracy fell off just before 2000. Running them now at 1850 fps. This one bullet in one rifle.

Not too shabby is it?
I made it to 2200 before it became useless.
Still pushed it to coating failure at 2500
This with the cheapest powder coating on the market.
Better stuff arrived today, I'll have to see where this stuff breaks.
I'm also going to run a harder alloy to see if I can keep some accuracy above the 2200 mark.

 

[venomballistics]

Copper plated for rifle is strictly reduced loads only. I tried several of them and if you aren't using Red Dot, Unique, Trail Boss, 2400, or something similar then you will be pushing them beyond what the plating can stand. All the plated bullets I've seen are soft swaged bullets. The soft core inside the paper thin plating just can't handle much velecity.

Now change this into a harder alloy coated bullet and you can start to push them. I've quenched some #2 alloy after coating them and run them through an 8mm Mauser at jacketed velocity and there was ZERO leading which means the coating held up. I had terrible accuracy though so I'm thinking the bullet hardness just wasn't up to the task. Still though since it held together that tells me it's worth a little more time and effort.

And don't forget that plating isn't nearly as domestic dwelling compatible as hi tek or powder coating.
There are also several types of coatings available.

Also, check your state laws pertaining to the use of Teflon.
Yes, it is out there begging to be used.
Yes, a few states have pitched a fit about it.
Fed level, with the help of the NRA, made an 11th hour switch to construction based legislation against AP bullets. So many can legally use Teflon powder coat.
I'm not sure how enforceable it is elsewhere, if at all. Some premium bullet offerings seem to ignore even the federal construction based legislation. So do proceed with due caution.

There is also nylon based coatings to play with.
I have not looked into any laws that may be in the way of resurrection of the old nyclad ammo.

 

[novalty]

I have some old lead based paint, will that work?

 

[venomballistics]

I have some old lead based paint, will that work?

Ummm, no.

On a serious note, I tried some rather high end stuff in the past.
Why this works when Imron failed is beyond me.

But back to the fine art of screwing around.
I don't see any compatibility issues with using a lead based paint upon a like based object.
Who'd ever know?

 

[forestswin]

I should never have opened this thread. Too many irons in fire already. I should never have opened this thread.

you're right-------You never should have opened this thread.

I feel your pain!

I have 8 different bullets (multiple calibers) that either I have extensive work ups or in the middle of or just starting. I've played with several powders, primers, etc. I have all my logs filled out - chrono data, pics of targets.

I was almost done

These guys forced me into trying bayou's 158 grain SWC's.

I haven't loaded or shot them yet - but those gator snots are just sitting there harassing me. I want to put them to the back of the line and let them wait their turn - - but NOOO - this topic won't go away - they'll be a Part 3 and a Part 4, etc

 

[venomballistics]

For one of the most advanced handloaders here, I'd have never guessed you'd be playing catch up.

 

[novalty]

For one of the most advanced handloaders here, I'd have never guessed you'd be playing catch up.

Who's that directed too?