Powder recommendation for 38 +P?

[BC38]

There was a thread with a lot of good data for duplicating the old 158gr "FBI +P Load". IIRC the best results anybody got was with HS-6

 

[bigggbbruce]

CFE Pistol..

 

[2ndtimer]

I agree with those other posters that a 158 gr bullet is probably not optimal for a defense load in a .38 Special or .38 +P. If you are going to shoot 158 gr weight in a .38, you might just as well load a cast SWC, since expansion below 1,000 FPS would be minimal, at best, and the lead bullet might even achieve higher velocity and improved penetration.
As for your powders on hand, I found 2400 and Blue Dot very dirty with lots of unturned powder at less than maximum loads in .357 Magnum. I expect it would be even worse at .38 Spec load levels. Of those you listed, W-231 would be okay. I would go with Power Pistol, for performance, but since you also mention a desire for low flash/muzzle blast, I would consider trying some BE-86, which is supposedly Power Pistol with a flash inhibitor.
Oh,and if it was me, I would also opt for some 125 gr or even 110 gr JHP designed to expand at .38 Special velocities.

 

[Pantera Mike]

I am being convinced that lighter bullets are the way to go. Probably less recoil too. The list of powders is narrowing too. Thanks again!

 

[SixGunSancho]

If I were able to start anew, I'd buy only Wihtavuori powder.

I do not load .38 Special +P. Truth be told, I do not like to load much above minimum loads. If I stay at the mimimum end, I can use my powder thrower and not have to sweat standard deviation. A couple tenths over won't matter.

I use +P for self-defense. A box of self-defense loads will last me a lot longer than the rest of my life. It makes far more sense for my needs to buy a box of factory +P. It keeps we away for precise powder measurements that are required for big game hunting ammo.

Now if I were going to load +P, I'd probably use the cleaner burning version of Unique, Longshot, or Power Pistol unless I could get my hands on VV powder. The less + in my P the better.

Also this might help you, once you hit threshold velocity for you application, more velocity might work against you. That's why I don't get nutted up of FPS.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have a 686 6" that I have loaded 38 special cases in with w231 powder.

Generally, I use the fast powder and lead bullets for light target loads and step up to the medium to med-slow powder for the +p loads but w231 can work.

With a full load of w231 in a 38 case and a 158 lead wc design in my 6" barrel I can reach 950fps.
Blue Dot can reach 1024fps with a full load but this extra recoil is not needed since the lighter load will work for a SD loading.

Lighter bullets have Pro's and Con's that you have to address.
Good luck.

 

[oddshooter]

SixGunSancho wrote:
If I were able to start anew, I'd buy only Vihtavuori powder.

I totally agree with your statement. VV is the best, IMO; but someone already said it; ya can't find it and when ya do, it's expensive.

Still, in a fit of candor, I must say I have over 20 powders currently on the shelf. I love variety and I love to experiment. Trail Boss donuts are just too scrumptious. and what Big Bore guy could live without H110.

But, I will always have VV on the shelf.


Prescut

 

[Carrier]

Thanks all. My 686 has a 4-inch barrel, ideal for a 'house gun' IMHO.

I have thousands of 158gr generic JHP bullets on hand that I use for 357/44 B&D and 357 magnum, as well as a bunch of 158gr Hornady JHP I save for use in 357 Auto Mag. And I have thousands of 158gr SWC I use in 357 mag as well. So I'm kind of wedded to that bullet weight, although I suppose I could try lighter weights.

Sounds like AA#5 or HS6 is what I should be trying. I recall reading that AA meters extremely well from a progressive press powder loader (Dillon). Is HS6 similar in that regard? And is one or the other likely to result in less muzzle flash?

Thanks again for the words of wisdom!

HS-6 or AA-5 meters excellent through my LNL powder measure. I haven't had time to work up a good AA-5 load as still recovering from shoulder surgery but HS-6 with XTP 158 grain bullet is the most accurate load I've shot in 38 special from my 14-3 with a 8 3/8" barrel.
I also have a very accurate load using HS-6 in 357 magnum from my 28 with 6" barrel as well.
Others have used lots of other powders and bullets that work for them but HS-6 has worked very well for me.
I also use Speer 158 LSWC bullets with HS-6 that are very close to the XTP for accuracy and do not lead barrel at 38 plus P or mid upper 357 loads.

 

[max503]

To the OP - you are wise to avoid unburned powder flakes. Unburned powder under the extractor can tie up a revolver.

My guns like Unique in heavy loads.

 

[Daniel Howe]

For my fiancee I load 158 grain Hornady XTP with 4.3 grains of Hogdon titegroup. Its a fast burning powder that works good with short barrel revolvers, less muzzle flash.

 

[Abflyboy]

FWIW, HS-6 under a 158 gr XTP is my .357 Magnum plinking load.

HS-6 meters extremely well through my Dillon XL650.

 

[Nevada Ed]

To the OP - you are wise to avoid unburned powder flakes. Unburned powder under the extractor can tie up a revolver.

My guns like Unique in heavy loads.

Just for giggles I tried the very SLOW IMR4227 in the 38 special case with a lead 158gr bullet.
Ten grains out of a J frame snub nose gave me 571fps..........
was very dirty and locked up the cylinder, to where I had to take it home to clean it and get the cylinder to open again.

This might be why the Lyman book that I have, only list
Blue Dot as the slowest powder for the 158gr weight lead bullets.

 

[alwslate]

For my fiancee I load 158 grain Hornady XTP with 4.3 grains of Hogdon titegroup. Its a fast burning powder that works good with short barrel revolvers, less muzzle flash.

Realize that the velocity of your load is going to be very low out
of a snubby, expansion will be zero and you may be taking a
real chance of sticking a bullet in the bore.

 

[sniper]

To the OP - you are wise to avoid unburned powder flakes. Unburned powder under the extractor can tie up a revolver.

True...don't ask me how I know this!

 

[Pantera Mike]

A couple of days ago I picked up a pound of AA#5 and a box of Speer 125gr Gold Dot Hollow Points. The Speer reloading manual has a max load of 7.8gr for +P while the older AA data has a MINIMUM of 8.3 with a warning not to reduce any further? The current AA data has a variety of loads for different 125gr bullets with a curious split, as the min and max charges vary quite a bit with different bullets. The two highest show a max of 7.8 which mirrors the Speer data. The minimum 357 magnum loads with this same bullet and powder combination are all substantially higher. So I felt safe starting off with 7.8. I won't be able to try it until next week but will let you know how it turns out.

I did shoot a hundred rounds of my 2400 load last week, which rendered the gun filthy. It was accurate and recoil was authoritative leading me to believe that whoever was on the other end would definitely rue the day, but the gun and bench were sprinkled with unburned powder flakes. I have 150 more rounds of this stuff to get rid of and will never use that load again.

I actually bought eight pounds of 2400 last year because the reloading manual data indicated it was suitably flexible for downloading 357 and 44 to lower-than-max velocities. I have found that once the charge is reduced it no longer works effectively. I guess I can turn up the steam, but that's why I have eight pounds of WW296?

First world problems....

 

[308 Scout]

2400 is a good powder, but like all other powders with a relatively slow burning rate, you must use them properly.

First, a magnum primer would be preferred for 2400. Second and most important a good, HEAVY roll crimp on the bullet. If you didn't crimp the bullets already I'd suggest you run the remaining round through the seater die crimp the bullets.

As I mentioned above, I loaded 10 gr. of 2400 for my Model 10's and 15 and haven't noticed any unburned power.

 

[Pantera Mike]

Actually I have been applying a heavy taper crimp. Good enough, or no? I've had problems with excessive roll crimp leading to case bulge and difficulty chambering (when deliberately trying to see how far I could go). Taper crimping seems more forgiving. But is a good taper crimp as effective as a good (not excessive) roll crimp?

 

[308 Scout]

Actually I have been applying a heavy taper crimp. Good enough, or no? I've had problems with excessive roll crimp leading to case bulge and difficulty chambering (when deliberately trying to see how far I could go). Taper crimping seems more forgiving. But is a good taper crimp as effective as a good (not excessive) roll crimp?

I don't think a taper crimp holds the bullet as well as a roll crimp. Like I said, I'm using 2400 in my .38's with zero problems, BUT I'm loading cast bullets that have a deep crimp groove. Are these jacketed bullets?

 

[Pantera Mike]

I don't think a taper crimp holds the bullet as well as a roll crimp. Like I said, I'm using 2400 in my .38's with zero problems, BUT I'm loading cast bullets that have a deep crimp groove. Are these jacketed bullets?

Perhaps you're right? But the taper crimp is fairly aggressive.

158gr JHP on the left, Speer 125gr GDHP on the right.

 

[308 Scout]

If it were me I'd seat those bullets to the very front of the cannelure and apply a good roll crimp. Nothing to lose by trying.