Power Pistol Std Velocity 38 Spl???

[38SPL HV]

Would this powder be too slow for standard velocity 38 Spl's with 158 gr lead?

I would like to develop a 158 gr 38 Spl load duplicating the old Police Service round with Power Pistol.

Any experiences with this powder and 38 Spl is greatly appreciated.

 

[Vortec MAX]

My experiences with PP in 38 Special are limited to 125 grain projectiles fire from snubnose revolvers. PP was the best powder I have tried so far for that application. It produced the highest velocities and the lowest spreads (best consistency) of any powder I have tried.

Mike

 

[Tim357]

Alliant's recipe of 5.4 gr PP and Lee 158 RNFP gave 888 fps from a3" Ruger, and 903 fps from a 4" Smith I used to have.

 

[venomballistics]

Low velocity service ammo is a bit of an oxymoron
service ammo tends to be a full house loading and that's what PP will try to give you.

 

[Rule3]

Try HP 38/W231

HP 38 stands for 38 special Unique would be about the same

 

[rockquarry]

No, this powder is not too slow to develop the load you are suggesting. In the Speer #13 book (the latest Speer manual I have), a maximum load of 5.4 grs. is used with the Speer swaged 158 grain (in three configurations). This shows to be a standard pressure load. MV was 948 from a 6" K-38.

I've used 5 grs. PP with the cast H&G #51 160 grain SWC; muzzle velocity was 880 fps. Search and you should find additional data for substantiation.

 

[alwslate]

Would this powder be too slow for standard velocity 38 Spl's with 158 gr lead?

I would like to develop a 158 gr 38 Spl load duplicating the old Police Service round with Power Pistol.

Any experiences with this powder and 38 Spl is greatly appreciated.

I'm not trying to be rude but, do you own any reloading
manuals at all? Do you subscribe to Handloader magazine?
My handloading experience goes back 50 yrs and despite the
vast amount of information available on the net nowdays,
which I do appreciate, I still enjoy soaking up information
the old fashioned way, reading, reading and more reading.
Information on the net may be dependent on changes in
marketing rights and older, but still viable, information
may be unavailable. Old fashioned printed material may be
the best source of both cutting edge and decades old data
and no one is going to come to your house and erase it.

 

[38SPL HV]

Yes, I have old material, but many of the recent powders are absent. I also enjoy the experiences of others in this great sport, including yours, and appreciate all the inputs very much. However, I may have to get Handloader one of these days; perhaps they have an on-line subscription!

 

[forestswin]

..........................I may have to get Handloader one of these days; perhaps they have an on-line subscription!

well, yes they do!!!

here's a link to Wolfe Publishing for Handloader, Rifle and Hunter

Now you can have your three magazines as an online subscription for the cost of less than one printed version. For only $19.97 a year you get a total of 18 issues including Rifle, Handloader and Successful Hunter. (a $20-$60 value/$90 newsstand) - See more at: https://www.riflemagazine.com/home/index.cfm?CFID=55902064&CFTOKEN=21035126#sthash.dMQvryOE.dpuf

 

[forestswin]

by the way, what exactly is the old Police Service round??

 

[rockquarry]

"Police Service" may refer to a specific factory loading; I don't know. To me, this somewhat ambiguous term makes reference to the standard .38 Special round nose lead bullet factory-loaded to around 850 fps.

 

[38SPL HV]

Police Service round was coined by Remington and listed on their older green box packaging. A 158 gr lrn, velocity of 855 fps from 6 inch test barrels.

 

[Rule3]

by the way, what exactly is the old Police Service round??

I believe they used to call it "The Widow Maker"(as to the LEOS not the bad guys) round, due to it's poor performance but as with most things there is a lot of debate over it. A 158 gr LRN I believe.

 

[iPac]

A standard velocity 38spl loaded with PP using a 125gr. HP is listed at 6.1gr of powder with a velocity of 986 per Speers data.

Now I load my rounds up a little higher closer to +P, and use 6.4gr of PP using a 125gr HP. Speer website states 6.8gr is max, but I don't go that high because my guns are vintage. (Detective Special, Cobra)

Those are my practice loads. My actual defense loads are 140gr XTP behind 6.2gr of PP. That give it +P velocity. Even though Speer don't give a recipe for the 140gr in 38spl, they do give for 135gr. HP which is 6.4gr. So the slightly heavier bullet gets slightly less powder. I have shot and tested it to satisfaction.

I don't really go any higher in bullet weight for the 38spl, so can't help you with data on 158gr bullets. Also, I don't use plain lead. Everything is either jacketed or plated with me.

 

[38SPL HV]

Thank you iPac

 

[moxie]

Are you still "considering" buying a current reloading handbook?

 

[38SPL HV]

Would you answer a pointed question?

 

[rockquarry]

After decades, the contentious discussion of the alleged performance of .38 Special standard pressure 158 grain lead round nose ammunition remains an unresolved matter. Bullets can be "tested" by firing through boards, wet newspapers, jello, cow bones, etc. Do such sterile and controlled measures accurately depict a real shooting situation? Maybe...

There is probably nothing available in the way of complete statistics that document the adequacy or lack thereof when discussing the standard round nose lead .38 Special loading. We normally read about or hear of isolated incidents where it failed. Were there ever really many of these? The context and validity of such reports may be questionable as well.

The modest .38 Special load may have been about all there was (and almost certainly the most common) for a long time, particularly in police service. No one knows how many criminals' careers were shortened by the use of this modest loading.

The gun press shares at least some responsibility for perpetuating unsubstantiated "conventional wisdom".

I wouldn't run out and buy some "Police Service" or whatever-they-are- called loads, but they are probably just a little bit more effective than many think.

 

[38SPL HV]

Good points rockquarry

 

[gen3guy]

I got 902 FPS out of a 4" Model 10 with 5.5 gr. PP behind a 158 gr. LSWC. This probably creeps into the +P range but I was very satisfied with the results overall.