Power Pro 300MP=H110=W296

[daverich4]

In an article on Alliant powders in the current issue of Guns & Ammo the author says that Power Pro 300MP, H110 & W296 are all the same powder. I've known about H110 & W296 but was interested to hear about 300MP because I have some and there isn't nearly the published data on it that there is on the other two. I thought I could just use the suggested loads for them with my 300MP. Up until now it's been my understanding that one should always use Magnum primers with H110/W296. Or at least it's highly recommended. However, in his article on loads for the 44 Keith bullet in the December issue of Handloader, Brian Pearce uses Magnum primers for H110 and Standard primers for 300MP as if he thinks they are different powders. His 300MP loads are about .5 grain higher than the H110 which to me just makes up for the difference in the primers but I'm just guessing there. Does anyone here know what's actually the case regarding these powders? Are they they same or not? Thanks.

 

[jake m29]

Dave, I use 300-mp in my .500s as well as H-110. They are close however the 300-mp requires a heavier charge for my use. I use Magnum rifle primers in my loads and have gotten great results. The thing I like about 300-mp is with normal loads the case is filled plumb up. I did use regular primers when I first started using the 300-mp but it wasnt burning all the powder and leaving crystals. 49 grains is alot of powder to burn ;-) . To answer your question from my exsperiance the powders mentioned are not the same and merely different companies equivalents.

 

[Ben_hutcherson]

I picked up a pound of 300MP, and have used a little bit of it for some 357 loads.

As mentioned, loading data is scarce but everything I've read about it says that(as above) it does not require magnum primers. Also, in the limited load data available, Alliant says to reduce by 10% for a starting load, which would put it well below the recommended starting loads I've seen for H110.

For what it's worth, my Lyman 49th edition starting manual gives a maximum load of 17gr of H110 under a 158gr XTP in 357 Magnum. The Alliant Reloader's Guide lists 18.6gr as the max charge for a 158gr Gold Dot. Looking at 44 magnum, Lyman gives 21.1gr as the max charge of H110 under a 270gr Gold Dot SP, and Alliant lists 22gr as the max charge for 300MP with this same bullet.

I'd be inclined to think that they're similar, but not the same powder.

 

[daverich4]

Thanks for the replies. The Guns and Ammo author said all three powders are made in the same plant in Florida and are just relabeled versions of the same powder but that seems to not be the case. Thanks again.

 

[EazyT]

Thanks for the replies. The Guns and Ammo author said all three powders are made in the same plant in Florida and are just relabeled versions of the same powder but that seems to not be the case. Thanks again.

Saying they are made in the same factory doesn't mean anything. Its my understanding that most powder companies don't manufacter their own powder. They develop it (or the military developes it) and then have one of the very few powder manufacturers produce it to their specifications. So the same plant produces powder for several different companies.

 

[michaelnel]

I think most of the USA powder companies are just marketing orgs. They own a bunch of brands, but someone else makes their powder.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The old saying of ........."A little dab will do you".

May be the "same powder" until the company adds a chemical that retards the burn rate or speeds it up.

Science........a wonderful thing.

 

[MichiganScott]

Just by looking at the data 300MP appears to be slower than 296/110, probably with a burn rate around that of IMR4227. Doesn't really matter because trying to work up loads without data because someone says one powder is identical to another is asking for problems.

Use the 300MP data, start low, and work your way back up.

 

[Skeet 028]

Powders etc

We see differences between powder brands that are supposed to be the same such as 296/H110.(they are the same powders) ..but the reason for the differences we have seen are because of the testing chronographing and pressure testing. Winchester did it different than Hodgdon etc etc. That is why we now see in the annual Hodgdon manual the same pressures ,velocities for powders such as H414/Win 760..HP38/Win 231.. Is 300MP the same as 296? Doubtful but it may be close. Will there be a difference in amounts to use? ..pressure velocity. Yep Even if it is the same powder!!. The testing criteria are different with different companies. Pressure bbls..or the use of strain gauges regular rifle or pistols. Good golly miss Molly, guys. Comparing apples to horse apples or oranges will never give the same results..even the same company on a day to day basis will be different...even if only slightly. I learned many years ago that Some powders are the same. I bought a 50 lb cardboard container of Hodgdon HP-38 from a large wholesale distributor in New Jersey.. I usually only bought shotgun powders..but the price was so cheap I figured I could sell it for at least 2 dollars a pound...doubling my investment. When I opened the container, inside was a strong plastic bag with 5 or 6 tags on it proclaiming it to be..yep..Winchester 231. Heck y'all even the same loads from the same components will be somewhat different from one day to the next. So as someone pointed out so well already...start at the recommended starting load and work up with any new powder. You usually can't go too far wrong that way..and you do get to shoot a little more. such a BAD thing!! LOL

 

[Greenjoytj]

I know this thread is 3 years old but I just discovered it doing a Google search while I was searching for accurate top velocity handloads for my 686 375magnum with Hornady 158 gr XTP bullets.

Recently I've read that Alliant Power Pro 300-MP is W296/H110 with some anti flash ingredient added.

Maybe after being on the market for 4 years, more users maybe able speak about the performance of Power Pro 300-MP as in how it compares to W296/H110 particularly to its reputation of flashiness in the muzzle blast.

Besides Alliant's load data I only found a load recipe for it in my Hornady 9th Edition and their load data looks very close to Lyman's 49 th & 50 th editions recipe for H110. Which is very unusual as every manual I have shows widely varying max powder charge weights for H110.

 

[cowboy4evr]

When in doubt , call the powder company . I have talked to Alliant before on several questions and always found them very helpful .

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The manufacturer and distributor both claim they are different and the data is different. But then again we have heard that before and the two powders did end up being the same exact powder. (W296/H110)

We will probably never know for sure but we do know they are very similar. I started a thread on another forum a while back asking if 300-MP was different enough from W296/H110 to give it a try and I was told not to bother.

 

[mtgianni]

They give very different results in the 357 Max. Having read the article I do not know how someone got out of it that the author claimed it was the same powder.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

It is a little slower than 296, and it DOES like mag primers better.
As always, start lower and work up a little at a time.

 

[muddocktor]

And don't believe it flashes less than 296/H110 either. I had loaded some 44 Mag 165 grain JHP bullets with a hefty load of 300MP and shot them at an indoor range and they lit up the lanes just as brightly as anything loaded with H110 in my Desert Eagle. The Eagle will throw a much better muzzle flash than my 629.

 

[daverich4]

They give very different results in the 357 Max. Having read the article I do not know how someone got out of it that the author claimed it was the same powder.

Guns & Ammo Magazine (December 2013), Pg. 28, "Propellant Powerhouse" written by Layne Simpson, says "W296, H110 and Alliant's Power Pro 300-MP are identical spherical magnum revolver propellants made at the same facility."

 

[mtgianni]

Guns & Ammo Magazine (December 2013), Pg. 28, "Propellant Powerhouse" written by Layne Simpson, says "W296, H110 and Alliant's Power Pro 300-MP are identical spherical magnum revolver propellants made at the same facility."

Source: Guns and Ammo Magazine, December 2013 Issue
Article: Propellant Powerhouse, p. 28
Author: Layne Simpson

Quote: "...Spherical powders require a different manufacturing process than do those of tubular and flake forms, so the Power Pro series - which includes 300-MP, 1200-R, 200-MR, 4000-MR, and Varmint - is made at St. Marks in Florida.
All are useful in the application for which they are formulated, but 300-MP was the one needed most in the Alliant lineup. W296 and H110 from Hodgdon are also made at St Marks and are actually the same powder with different names. They have long been the choices for delivering top velocities in magnum revolver cartridges from .357 Magnum to .500 S&W Magnum, but they now share that role with Power Pro 300-MP. ..."

If you comprehend English you can clearly see that 300 MP was the one most needed in the line up. The next line states W296 and H110 are the same powder with different names. Nowhere is it stated or inferred that MP 300 is the same as 296/110.

 

[Doubless]

I think it is really hard to tell, and in a lot of cases, the answer is just plain moot. Here is why I say this:

I am a fan of a pulldown powder known as WC 820. From what I can tell, it is manufactured at St. Marks Powder Company, in Florida. If you go to the General Dynamics website and take a look, that information is available: WC 820 is listed as being produced by St. Marks...

The last lot (32#) that I bought came with instructions to use H-110 load data. I have done that, and the powder shoots remarkably well. For years I swore up and down that the powder was "commercial 296" because of its physical properties, the way it flowed through a powder measure, and its burn rate. Well, then I find out that H-110 and W296 are the same powder. WTH???

THEN I read in a commercial rag that WC 820 is bought from St. Marks Powder Company by Western Powder and is re-packaged as Accurate #9! Guess what? AA #9 is so close to H-110 and W296 that I don't think any of us can tell the difference, although I have always felt that AA #9 seemed to "slow down" its burn rate when touched off behind heavy for caliber projectiles.

Add to that the fact that there are very few places that actually manufacture powder any more, and all four of these powders may in actuality be the same. The trick for any handloader is to select one, work up loads, and determine if where he ends up is really where he wants to be. In my estimation, it is sorting bug dust in the overall scheme of things.

 

[Rogeronimo]

I have thrown 5' fireballs and broken ejector rods by not respecting 300-MP as being much different from H110/W296 ... just sayin'.

 

[Ben_hutcherson]

This is purely anedotal, but 296/H110 have a very distinctive ether-like smell both in the can and when shot.

I've noted the a virtually identical smell from 300MP. I initially bought my can when most powders were unobtainable and found it in stock for $18.

I doubt I'll be buying another can of it, but I've certainly developed a healthy respect for it. Due to the lack of loading data, I do use 296 data as a starting point but of course work up to it.

My preference for 296 comes down to the fact that-next to 2400-there's probably more loading data out there for it than any other magnum powder.