PPC 9 5" slide to frame fit

[9mMan]

Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum and happy to be here!

I have a question regarding the 5906 performance center PPC 9 5". I recently purchased an early example (made in 2002 I believe) and I am curious about the slide to frame fit. The example I own has a small amount of play between the slide and frame, and I do mean small- just enough feel when holding the muzzle end of slide and moving . I have not tested this example in a ransom rest, however it's off hand accuracy at ranges up to 50 yards seems very good and I am quite happy with the pistol in all respects. I am just asking out of pure curiosity as I am use to the tolerances of my Swiss sig p210 which has no play whatsoever.

Thanks for any input you may have

 

[Tom S.]

Having a tight slide to frame fit is nice - if you are using frame mounted sights. Otherwise, barrel to slide fit is far more important for repeatable performance and accuracy.

 

[9mMan]

Tom S.,
Thanks for the input! Luckily, my barrel to slide fit and lockup are as tight as a drum.

I should clarify my post a bit.

I am specifically wondering whether or not that small amount of play is normal for PPC 9 5in pistols.

 

[Randy Lee]

I have the same pistol and it has some slide to frame play, as do one of my 952s and one 3566 Limited. Since they were hand fitted slide to frames, I would expect some guns to exhibit a little play while others (perhaps guns fitted on Wednesdays?) do not.

 

[Sevens]

I would agree that with these hand-built pistols, each particular unit would most likely have some varying degree of "tight" or fit from pistol to pistol.

Let me tell you about my 5-inch PPC-9 and where I base my opinion. My particular gun is THE finest, closest slide-to-frame fit of any pistol that I own and the only other one I have that is very close to the fit of my PPC-9 is my 845 Limited. I also have a 952-1 and while it is also an upper-echelon pistol, the slide-to-frame fit is just not in the same league. I have a pair of S&W 52-2 pistols and the fitment on those exceeds the 952-1, but they both fall short of the PPC-9 and 845. And as for how I base my opinion and/compare, I do not own any Sig pistols (I hear X-5's and P210's are amazing) but I've got lots of hands-on experience and have formerly owned Ed Brown and Les Baer pistols.

Here's what I find most interesting about the fit, feel and build quality of my PPC-9: the previous owner got an estimated round count with the gun when he bought it and also kept track of his own shooting. On top of that, he is unsure if he was the second or third owner. This makes me the third or fourth owner and including my shooting since late February, this ultra-finely fitted piece of machinery has a minimum round count of 5,600 through it.

Yes, 5,600 rounds is not a "100,000 round torture test", but this is well over a hundred boxes of ammo. That's a lot more ammo than most S&W PC pistols you're likely to find for sale. Even with that volume of ammo, this gun handles, feels and sounds like the firearm version of a Ferrari.

 

[9mMan]

Sevens, is your PPC 9 as closely fit as a les Baer? That's simply incredible. Is it possible to improve the fit between slide and frame on a stainless pistol with compromising the pistol in some way?

 

[03Fatboy]

Sevens, is your PPC 9 as closely fit as a les Baer? That's simply incredible. Is it possible to improve the fit between slide and frame on a stainless pistol with compromising the pistol in some way?

You have one of the best already IMO. I don't think you can do much to noticeably improve it. Just enjoy shooting it. First time I shot my 3566 Limited with a factory fitted 9mm barrel I was very impressed. Shot like my revolvers in single action, great trigger.

 

[Sevens]

Haha, okay, hold on a second.

My 5-inch PPC-9... slide to frame fit is absolutely as close as the one Baer I previously owned, the two Baer's my range buddy owns and the one brand new Baer that my other buddy has. That is to say... the fit and feel of the slide as it glides along the frame rails. Side to side play at either end, whether open or in full battery is nil.

However, nothing that I own goes in to final battery or lock-up in the same way or feel that a Les Baer does. The closest thing I have that closes that tightly is my very late production (TZT prefix) Model 52-2.

The way a Baer goes in to full lock-up is NOT like any pistol that I am aware of. A brand new, directly out of the carton Les Baer almost feels (to me) like it would malfunction. (it doesn't malfunction... but it gives me the feeling that it would.)

The S&W PC pistols don't feel like that in final, full-battery lockup. But the fitting and inspiring feel is absolutely there.

 

[Dukesamson]

I have 2 6" target champions and a 5" ppc that are unfired after left the factory, they do something no other pistol I own does, they wipe the oil film out of the groves so they run dry with one cycle of the slide. I have shooters of both same guns and as they wear in a super thin film of oil is allowed to remain but there is zero play. This is the same case with all the PC semis I got that are unfired. You have the best made pistol of all time. No guy named les is better than the pistolsmiths at the golden era of S&W.

 

[9mMan]

I have 2 6" target champions and a 5" ppc that are unfired after left the factory, they do something no other pistol I own does, they wipe the oil film out of the groves so they run dry with one cycle of the slide. I have shooters of both same guns and as they wear in a super thin film of oil is allowed to remain but there is zero play. This is the same case with all the PC semis I got that are unfired. You have the best made pistol of all time. No guy named les is better than the pistolsmiths at the golden era of S&W.

Wow, that sounds like some close fitting to be sure. Is it typical for these to loosen up a bit, or is this just a case of some being more tightly fitted than others. Finally, if such play is abnormal, is this something that a competent smith can address?

Thank you all again for your thoughts

 

[Sevens]

Honestly, when you consider how tight mine is with over 5k on it, I would say -NO- a PPC-9 isn't typically going to loosen up.

And I would be very much against attempting to "tighten" it. If it shoots accurately as it is, I think your best option is to love it as-is or SELL it. You'll get a small fortune for it.

 

[9mMan]

Recoil spring weight?

Thank you all very much for your replies. I have decided to ransom the gun and as long as it's still producing a group reminicent of its test target, to leave well enough alone.

Does anyone know the factory spring weight for the PPC 9? It feels like an 8 or 10lb to me.

 

[Sevens]

I wish I knew but I really do not.

I really look forward to the results you come up with, please share them!

 

[CALREB]

Ive got a very early 5" model that S/.W provided our pistol team. That gun has been through A LOT of use , as it has been lent to several new shooters over the years. That gun has at least 100,000-125,000 rounds through it.
I got it back several month ago, cause Im retiring., and didnt want it disappearing!!!! into the who has it void, We have a alot of guys trying out ,shooting on the team. It pretty worn looking now. Still has very tight slide to frame, and still locks up, like a vault. Remember these guns will never feel locked up like a custom 1911 , they dont have links and such inside.
However --- took this one up to the range and it still put 5-115 win JHPs into 3/4" at 25 yards. These are absolutely the best 9s ever made.
The only thing this gun has had is probably a dozen or so recoil springs over the years and nothing but Mil-Tech for lube.
As far as recoils springs that will depend on what weight ammo you use. The early P/C guns liked lighter weight bullets, 105 Win especially. The later ones favor the heavier bullets 124-147. Probably following the LE use of 9mm. In the eighties-90s most shot lighter faster bullets. Toward the end of the 90's LE started going to heavier subsonic bullets and I think S/W changed the twist on these guns. Not sure to what.I just know my newer ones shoot 147 better than 115.
My EDC is a first run Lew Horton 6906 P/C it holds sub 1" at 25 after 20 years of use, dropping, dinging, drying, whatever.With a full size mag/ and PGS mag base it holds 16 rounds loaded. In a smaller size package than a G-19, and shoots as well as any 1911 whatever the make or cost. Hard to beat it. My .02 Bob

 

[bc1023]

Slide to frame fit is not nearly as important as the lockup at the muzzle.

I have multiple PPC 9mms and many Sig P210s. Accuracy is about the same. If anything, I'd give the S&W the edge.

 

[Sevens]

While I agree with you on accuracy and even simple shoot-ability...

When we are talking about elite handguns and the money we put in to them, especially when we have a basis of comparison and perhaps even expectation... the slide to frame fit, especially it's "feel" and certainly for me, the sound that I can discern when simply handling it (unloaded, no magazine)

...well, YES, it absolutely is important. Quite important, and I can certainly see where the OP is coming from with the question, and why he asks.