Pre-19 or Early Mod 19?

[rct269]

My Combat Magnum was bought early on-------long before the irritating model numbers came along---or maybe just a little bit before. The box says COMBAT MAGNUM in BIG LETTERS----and Model 19 in little letters underneath.

It's long gone, but as best as I remember it had a white outline rear sight and red ramp front.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Model19man]

Hello! I bought a great 19 at a gun show last weekend! It is a 4-screw with s/n K381XXX. It is not marked mod 19. Do you all think this is a pre-19? The s/n date puts it at 1959 (I checked the book), but of course they started stamping model numbers in 1957. So is it a pre-19 or a Mod-19 that somehow did not get stamped? I'd love to hear what everyone thinks! I know Smith doesn't exactly have their serial numbers in order!

In any case you got a real sweet one there.

 

[Engine49guy]

Hello and welcome to the wonderful Combat Magnum fan club lol...
That is a fine looking S&W , usually don't see that lighter Carmel colored wood until the mid 60's but they do pop up and those stocks are definitely pre 1963 by the checkering pattern IMO.

Many years ago my friend Snw19 357 and I discussed this very topic,
IIRC he came up with the term " Non model marked Model 19" and I think that describes what you have perfectly since Model marking existed at that time but not all of the guns in the SW vault left with a model marking yet.

Unfortunately I lost all my notes on the subject but IIRC my highest non Model marked Model 19 is in the K318000 range but that's just off the top of my head.

On a side note while those "Trigger shoes" were popular back in the day the purists tend to poo poo them for various reasons, I prefer the modern smooth combat trigger over wide target styles but my biggest beef as a collector is that the trigger shoes set screws tend to mark up the triggers factory case colour finish when removed.

Congrats in a fine acquisition and thanks for sharing it : )

 

[Doc44]

Combat Magnums with a 4-screw frame and no model number, but made after the Soft Fitting operation was eliminated in May 1957 would not have the serial number on the cylinder, in the extractor rod shroud, etc. However, they would still be Pre-Model 19s and analogous to 4-screw Pre-Model 29s made in the same time frame.

Bill

 

[Modified]

AMEN!

To be fair, I'm pretty sure "Modified" wrote that in jest.

Very much so.

I've been making jokes about "Transitional" models ever since I saw a gunbroker auction where the seller was claiming that an M&P 1905 was "transitional" because it was a "3rd change" and thus a transitional model. Presumably between 2nd and 4th changes...

 

[JayCeeNC]

If that serial number is K 381289 I once owned it.
It shipped in June, 1958.

 

[28WheelGirl]

If that serial number is K 381289 I once owned it.
It shipped in June, 1958.

WOW!! That's great! snw19_357 told me that it was in his data base and that it was shipped in June 1958. Thank you both for letting me know!



When and where did you get it and how long did you have it for?

 

[JP@AK]

I didn't know there never was a 5-screw Combat Magnum.

If you think about it, it makes sense. The first Combat Magnums were assembled in December, 1955. Clearly, by that time the decision had already been reached to eliminate the top sideplate screw, so with a new model introduction, they just started assembling them as four screw frames.

Something similar happened with the introduction of the L frames in 1980. Those were the first to come off the line without pinned barrels. Other frame sizes followed in a couple years.

 

[RKmesa]

First - Congrats to 28WheelGirl. That is a Beautiful Combat Magnum! They are great guns. Now, my thoughts on a few issues raised in this thread:

I believe the front sight with the insert is later. Not sure when they started. My 19-1 still has the plain sight.

The red inserts were available starting in 1952 and could be ordered on target guns. From the 1952 Catalog:

Early printing of the 1952 Catalog (with the Blanchard Sight):



Later printing of the 1952 Catalog (with what became the standard red insert):



An interesting piece of S&W sight history... That said, I do not recall seeing red ramps on very many early Combat Magnums.

Also, here is SN K500000 - it shipped in November 1961 and is not model marked either. Some guns just missed the model stamping.

 

[Oldbird13]

Is the trigger shoe staying or going?

 

[Doc44]

This is a very early .357 Combat Magnum, K260005, shipped in January 1956 with a red ramp and white outline.

The first .357 Combat Magnum, K260003, was completed on December 15, 1955 and has a red ramp, but plain blade rear sight.

Bill

 

[Engine49guy]

Had a chance to lookup my "Non model marked Model 19" , it is Serial K317946
shipped May 1958, I posted a picture of it in a post thread I did about the Combat Masterpiece a few years back,
The thread link is here

Some Combat Masterpiece eye candy

Scroll down to post 34 to see it.

 

[JayCeeNC]

WOW!! That's great! snw19_357 told me that it was in his data base and that it was shipped in June 1958. Thank you both for letting me know!
When and where did you get it and how long did you have it for?

I bought it from an online auction site in July, 2009, and sold it in January, 2015.

 

[28WheelGirl]

First - Congrats to 28WheelGirl. That is a Beautiful Combat Magnum! They are great guns. Now, my thoughts on a few issues raised in this thread:



The red inserts were available starting in 1952 and could be ordered on target guns. From the 1952 Catalog:

Early printing of the 1952 Catalog (with the Blanchard Sight):



Later printing of the 1952 Catalog (with what became the standard red insert):



An interesting piece of S&W sight history... That said, I do not recall seeing red ramps on very many early Combat Magnums.

Also, here is SN K500000 - it shipped in November 1961 and is not model marked either. Some guns just missed the model stamping.

Thank-You so much for this post! I love learning history of these revolvers. Really interesting that serial number without the model stamp! Thanks for sharing.

 

[28WheelGirl]

Had a chance to lookup my "Non model marked Model 19" , it is Serial K317946
shipped May 1958, I posted a picture of it in a post thread I did about the Combat Masterpiece a few years back,
The thread link is here

Some Combat Masterpiece eye candy

Scroll down to post 34 to see it.

I did -- WOW!

 

[28WheelGirl]

I bought it from an online auction site in July, 2009, and sold it in January, 2015.

Thanks! Appreciate it!

 

[dickydalton]

My 1961 is marked MOD and then MOD-19 under that.

 

[Jim Watson]

I guess you could look at it either way.
That the factory was inconsiderate of collectors 60 years later by inconsistent markings.
or
The factory was flip flopping markings around so collectors 60 years later would have stuff to look for.

 

[GerSan69]

First - Congrats to 28WheelGirl. That is a Beautiful Combat Magnum! They are great guns. Now, my thoughts on a few issues raised in this thread....

I love this kind of trivia! One of these days, I need to sit down and read the SCSW cover to cover instead of merely using it for reference. Is information like this in there someplace? If not, it darn well should be!
Finding out that King had the patent on the white outline naturally brings me to ask, do you know how long King did sight blades for S&W, and did the company ever make them completely themselves?
As always, thanks Richard, you always bring much more to the table than anyone could expect!

 

[66fan]

Just never sell any more Smiths and you will be just fine. Wish I had all of the guns that I had to sell over the years. Makes me sick to my stomach. Keep them forever.