Pre-K22? Any help would be appreciated.

[Dude_Etc]

I've had this gun for about 30 years now, could had bought a used bull barrel M41 for less. Serial number 125xx is on butt of frame and and cylinder, no model name or number, just a K stamp on the bottom of the grip frame.

Going to be relocating and I need to either sell or store my guns, figured I'd ask on the forum what model/date of manufacture, as well as approx. value if anyone is inclined to respond.

The pictures of the cylinder may make you want to cry/rage - I didn't do it...
The previous owner apparently had a thing for dry firing a rimfire, but several indentations are out of index...
The front of the cylinder has shallow grooves across the face because a retired marine capt. told me he had a gunsmith friend. I wanted him to check the cylinder true, he wanted like 25 bucks so ok... It looks like he chucked it in a lathe, scored it, then reblued it. Oh god.
If this was Teddy Roosevelt's .22, I'd hand lap the grooves out with diamond paste and a glass lap, (then shim the cylinder if needed, or have the barrel set back 1 turn by a "real" pistolsmith.) have the indents and dry fire damage lightly tig welded, then a high speed fordom tool to machine and polish.

No other damage or concerns, it shoots better than I can hold/see.

Thanks(sorry about the links, images are about 2Mb)

http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/K22full.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22cly125xx.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22butt125xx.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22sideplate.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22caliberandejector.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22barrelandejectorr.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22clygrooves1.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22clygrooves2.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22sideplate.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22frame3106x.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Dude_Etc/k22cranew93106x.jpg

 

[kscharlie]

You have a K-22 Masterpiece from 1947 most likely. The letter K is part of the serial number. The numbers on the yoke are assembly numbers, used only at the factory when the gun was built. In 1957, S&W assigned model numbers to their guns, and the K-22 Masterpiece became the Model 17.

Other than the cylinder "issues", it appears to be a very nice K-22. While the dry fire dimples and grooves are perhaps unsightly, if the revolver still functions properly, I would not worry about attempting to "fix" those issues. Having said that, those issues still take away some of the value. I would place a value of around $500, perhaps a tad more, as this one is what is known as a "one liner". This is in reference to the "Made In USA" stamped in front of the side plate. In 1948 (I think), this address stamp was changed to 4 lines.

At any rate, a good qualified gunsmith should be able to get the cylinder back in time at a reasonable price.

 

[glowe]

I think more than $500 in today's market for an early one-line K22 Masterpiece. Your serial number would have been manufactured in 1947, but ship date could be as late as the next year. I believe you have a very nice example. One will not find an example that went to the range a few times without dimples. No big deal, EXCEPT for the fact that the are showing up out of battery, but again only about 8 times??

I say $750 for your very nice, high condition gun. Today, if you find a safe queen, they are selling over 4 digits regularly.

 

[hkcavalier]

Yeah, there's nothing really known as a pre-K-22. They started in 1931 as the K-22 Outdoorsman and, shortly before our involvement in WWII, S&W changed the name to K-22 Masterpiece to reflect some significant changes. Those few prewar Masterpieces are some of the most collectible S&Ws. Yours, obviously after the war, is still pretty valuable but a whole lot of them were made. Target revolvers are often found in good shape since many didn't get carried and usually weren't "working guns."

Some might call yours a pre-17 but there's really no need: it's a K-22 Masterpiece.

 

[Dude_Etc]

I thank you both for your insights. When I bought it in the late '80's from the local gunshop, I never noticed how low the serial number range was, just that it was a cool vintage K22. I had always wanted 1(who didn't?), and it slotted well with my 686 and 29-3 at the range.

I'm guessing the gunshop (had a good smith in-house)repaired the timing issue as I've never had a bobble with the gun.

The $750 estimate is closer to what I paid back in days of yore - $359 for the gun in '88 or so, inflation calculator puts that at $740 adjusted dollars. Perhaps the Ca. market pays a bit higher as "everything" is expensive out here.

Thank you again kscharlie and glowe for sharing your expertise.

 

[Dude_Etc]

Thank you hkcavalier for the clarification. The low serial range and lack of any model markings threw me.

 

[chiefdave]

Here in the Midwest nice postwar K22's start about $800 and go up from there. Being you are on the left coast I would think prices would be higher.

 

[Dude_Etc]

Thank you chiefdave for the midwest market info, very helpful.

I'll admit Ca. politics concerning firearms(and even ammo now) are just plain awful...

 

[JP@AK]

Serial number 125xx is on butt of frame and . . . just a K stamp on the bottom of the grip frame.

The lists we have show the K target guns with serial numbers up to K18,731 being produced in 1947. That might well be the case, but remember that the K-38 and K-32 were numbered in the same sequence as the K-22.

I have in my collection a one-line K-22 Masterpiece with serial number K11270 that shipped in December, 1947. So, yours at K12500 (+ or -) may not have left the factory until 1948. Of course, we also know they did not ship in serial order, so it could have been sooner or later than mine.

I once owned a one-liner with a serial number lower than both of ours and it didn't leave the factory until December, 1949! A very late shipper.

 

[DWalt]

"So, yours at K12500 (+ or -) may not have left the factory until 1948."
On my list is K12148, a K22 which shipped on 1/5/48. Guns were selling rapidly at that time, so not much reason to believe that most revolvers sat for very long in S&W's finished goods inventory.

 

[Dude_Etc]

Thank you JP@AK and DWalt for the interesting production(would not had guessed combined serials across 3 models)and shipping info. Inventory just sitting there still seems alien to me, post-war boom, gun culture, etc. It does make me wonder a bit if they ever "found" anything akin to the cheese factory that discovered a wheel of chedder they had been aging - for 50 years. A somewhat dusty Triple Lock in the bottom drawer of Roy Jinks' desk would be equally tasty.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! Since you know the name of Roy Jinks, how would you like to meet him in person this summer?

Should YOU Join the S&W Collectors Association?

 

[JP@AK]

It does make me wonder a bit if they ever "found" anything akin to the cheese factory that discovered a wheel of chedder they had been aging - for 50 years.

Well, that sort of thing does happen. The company stopped producing the .32-20 Hand Ejector in c. 1929. We know of one unit that did not ship from the factory until 1965! Yes, that's ONLY 36 years in the vault.

 

[JP@AK]

would not had guessed combined serials across 3 models

Oh, that's not much. K prefix numbers were only used on those three models in 1948, but others were soon added. Here is a more complete list:
K-22 Masterpiece
K-32 Masterpiece
K-38 Masterpiece
.22 Combat Masterpiece (added in 1949)
.32 Combat Masterpiece (very few assembled, no regular production)
.38 Combat Masterpiece (added in 1949)
.357 Combat Magnum (added in 1955)
K-22 Masterpiece Magnum (added in 1959)

Edited to add: Corresponding model numbers (starting in 1958) were, in order of above:
Model 17
Model 16
Model 14
Model 18
No model number - no production
Model 15
Model 19
Model 48

Second Edit: Forgot about the Jet! Model 53, introduced in 1961.

 

[Green Frog]

My K-22 is from 1948 and ranks as my most fired revolver most of the time. It stays in my range box along with a bulk box of Federal Auto Match ammo so I'm ready to go shooting at the drop of a suggestion!

Since the work has been done on yours to insure its reliable function, and since it has had a fair amount of shooting in its somewhat checkered past, you have what I like most... a great shooter that doesn't make you worry about putting wear on it. You can shoot it extensively for the rest of your life without being likely to wear it out. I know, because I've tried to wear out mine!

Enjoy!
Froggie

 

[jeffrefrig]

Probably one of the best .22s ever made! Mine, my dad's, is still spot on at 75 feet. It's a 1950.

 

[JP@AK]

Probably one of the best .22s ever made!

I completely agree.

Mine, my dad's, is still spot on at 75 feet. It's a 1950

I've owned 5 screw, 4 screw and 3 screw variations. All were tack drivers.

I remember the first one-liner I ever owned. A few days after I bought it, I took it out shooting. I put an entire box of 50 .22 LR in the target at 15 yards. You could cover the group with a fifty cent piece.

I ended up selling it to a friend, who still has it. Swears it is the best shooting revolver he's ever owned. And he has a bunch of them.

 

[Dude_Etc]

Thank you murphydog for your welcome, and as you're a mod I feel compelled to mention how much I enjoyed reading the rules/and of forum decorum - kudos. I'll also mention you provided the most compelling link I've seen in a very long time. I had read Mr. Jinks had retired, glad to hear he's still involved through the SWCA - Smith&Wesson historian extraordinaire !

JP@AK, those are a "lot"(no pun intended) of different models to run off 1 numeric string, though you clearly prove that their records are quite good.
Hmm. 36 years in the vault...pristine...

Green Frog, jeffrefrig, and JP@AK, have to agree with you that it's a really sweet shooter. The only problem is that small bore really shows group size - no fudging, and you can't blame the gun.

 

[DWalt]

Regarding the S&W K-series revolvers, their principal market for many years was mainly for use by Bullseye target shooters, basically using paper targets at 25 and 50 yards, in three stages - slow fire, timed fire, and rapid fire for .22, any centerfire cartridge (such as .38 Special), and .45. Both Colt and S&W turned out guns for Bullseye shooters. While a .45 revolver could be used in the .45 stages, virtually all but a very few Bullseye shooters always used a Colt Government Model, generally highly accurized.

Starting in the 1960s-70s, most Bullseye shooters moved completely away from revolvers - they adopted semiautomatics for .22, generally Colt Woodsman Match Target pistols and various Hi-Standard .22 target pistols, with some target-grade Rugers appearing later. .22 revolvers such as the K-22 were out, and are still out, among that group of shooters. Semiauto .22s are demonstrably better competition guns in several respects. Regarding the "any centerfire caliber" once dominated by Colt and S&W .38 target revolvers, most Bullseye shooters simply began using the .45 GMs for both "any CF caliber" and .45 stages, which was perfectly legal to do. Again, a highly accurized .45 semiauto is a demonstrably superior gun for competition use. So there went the S&W K-38s and the various Colt Officer s Model .38 target revolvers.

Unfortunately today, the Bullseye matches are nowhere nearly as popular as they were 50 years ago, having been replaced largely by the more combat-oriented shooting games (IPSC, IDPA, Bowling Pin, etc.), and typically nearly all of those shooters use semiautos (with a few exceptions such as ICORE). Too bad, but time marches on.

Point is, while the K-series S&W target revolvers (not in any way ignoring the Colt target revolvers) were and still are excellent tools, they really don't have much of a foothold today in the world of competitive handgun shooting.

 

[Dude_Etc]

Jerry Miculek would perhaps disagree with your acessment of the competitive capabilities of a S&W revolver...