Pre-Model 10 ID

[TN96DC]

Hello everyone, I pickup up a distressed pre-model 10 that I need help narrowing down on the date. I reached out to S&W and was told that it is a HE38 from 1918-1948. Based on my research and the stocks, it should be in the date ranges of 1911-1920? The serial number reads 204609. S&W also told me that they would not be able to offer and refinishing or restoring services due to the age. If I can get some insight on that as well that would be great. Thank you guys!

- David

 

[robertrwalsh]

Looks to be shortly before WWI. We have several members here who have personal serial number data bases who can probably give a better number than that. That thing is rough. It would cost you a FORTUNE to restore it and even a decent refinish would not be cheap. You could almost certain buy a better example for much less than that would cost. (My opinion, for what that might be worth to you.) Unless you have some personal or family attachment to the gun, which it seems you do not, it would be a money-down-the-crapper endeavor.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Based on other serial numbers I see, it likely shipped in 1913. It is not a Pre-Model 10, though, as those were not produced before 1948. Some here would call it a Model 1902 since it has a round butt. Practically speaking, it is a .38 Military & Police, Model 1905, 3rd Change.

I agree with Robert that having a gunsmith refinish it is going to be exorbitantly expensive. S&W's policy is they will not work on "obsolete" guns because they no longer have parts to replace anything damaged. If you want to attempt to refinish it yourself, I recommend viewing Mark Novak's Conservation videos on YouTube first. I suspect you will need to replace much of the action, perhaps even the hammer and trigger. Try to find replacement parts. You can start at Numrich and Jack First. Those round butt walnut stocks are likely worth as much as the gun. So, be careful with them. Best of luck!

 

[TN96DC]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Based on other serial numbers I see, it likely shipped in 1913. It is not a Pre-Model 10, though, as those were not produced before 1948. Some here would call it a Model 1902 since it has a round butt. Practically speaking, it is a .38 Military & Police, Model 1905, 3rd Change.

I agree with Robert that having a gunsmith refinish it is going to be exorbitantly expensive. S&W's policy is they will not work on "obsolete" guns because they no longer have parts to replace anything damaged. If you want to attempt to refinish it yourself, I recommend viewing Mark Novak's Conservation videos on YouTube first. I suspect you will need to replace much of the action, perhaps even the hammer and trigger. Try to find replacement parts. You can start at Numrich and Jack First. Those round butt walnut stocks are likely worth as much as the gun. So, be careful with them. Best of luck!

Good morning and thank you for that! I had suspected it to be from the “3rd change”. I’m a bit confused about it being from 1913 and not a “pre-model 10” though. I thought everything before the 50’s was considered a pre-model 10? The action still works on it, after I freed it up and lubricated it of course. I’m having trouble removing the screws to disassemble it though. The walnut stock has some damage to it (chipped), would it still be of value? At first, they were so black I thought they were plastic! Lol thank you again fellas.

- David

 

[TN96DC]

Looks to be shortly before WWI. We have several members here who have personal serial number data bases who can probably give a better number than that. That thing is rough. It would cost you a FORTUNE to restore it and even a decent refinish would not be cheap. You could almost certain buy a better example for much less than that would cost. (My opinion, for what that might be worth to you.) Unless you have some personal or family attachment to the gun, which it seems you do not, it would be a money-down-the-crapper endeavor.

I have plans to bring it to a gunsmith soon, I will keep you posted on what they say. Thanks again for your help

 

[Hawg Rider]

Welcome to the Forum! Although some folks may refer to your revolver as a "pre-Model 10", but it's actually a .38 Military and Police. Model numbers were introduced by S&W in 1957, so anything before that time was identified by its name. There are no official S&W references to handguns as "pre-" anything. But with that said, your revolver is in extremely rough condition...perhaps it was in a fire or buried in the ground for an extended period of time. As other Forum members have said, since it's not a family heirloom or a revolver with some special provenance, it's really not worth your time or money to restore that M&P. You've cleaned it up about as much as possible, so now it's really just a conversation piece. However, it is your revolver and your time & money, so you can do with it what you want. Good luck!

 

[Wiregrassguy]

I’m a bit confused about it being from 1913 and not a “pre-model 10” though. I thought everything before the 50’s was considered a pre-model 10?

There are no official S&W references to handguns as "pre-" anything.

Gil is correct. The terminology "Pre-model" is collector-speak to identify a gun that is in most respects identical to a model-marked gun, but predates the model number system. Your gun cannot be a "pre-model" because it has the older long-throw action and lacks a hammer block safety, among other differences from the Model 10. The .38 M&P switched to the modern hammer block safety after WWII and lost the long-throw action in 1948. M&Ps with the short-throw action but not model marked (Made 1948-57) are generally called "Pre-model 10's."

 

[Club Gun Fan]

There is no such thing as a "Pre-Model" This is a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change. Not worth having it refinished.

 

[DWalt]

It has a round butt and dates prior to 1915. So S&W would have cataloged and advertised it as a .38 Model 1902 Military and Police at that time. Likewise, a similar square butt version would have been cataloged and advertised by S&W as a .38 Model 1905. After about 1915, S&W would have called yours a .38 Military and Police (round butt) model because it dropped use of the 1902 and 1905 nomenclature. If you want to call it something else, it is your gun and you can call it whatever you wish. Regarding getting it refinished, most everyone here would strongly say that would not be recommended. Not only that, in its present poor condition it would probably be unlikely you could find anyone willing to take on the job, no matter the extremely high cost. It would have to be buffed and polished very deeply, destroying all markings. Your revolver is too far gone to warrant consideration for refinishing. Regarding those “changes,” S&W never used them in their nomenclature system. Purely unofficial collector speak, designating a series of evolutionary, mainly internal, mechanical changes made over time. As others have said, it would not be appropriate to call it a pre-Model 10. That term is normally reserved for M&P short action revolvers made in roughly the 1948-57 time period. The first Model 10 marked revolvers appeared in 1958 essentially identical to those M&P revolvers made for ten years previously.

 

[VASCAR2]

If the revolver were mine I’d put Kroil penetrating oil on the screws. I’ve found that a copper penny works well on removing blemishes without removing the underlying steel. Any good quality motor oil or CLP rubbed onto an inconspicuous spot and rubbed with a penny will give you an idea whether further work is warranted. Once I rubbed the exterior with the penny and oil I’d then rub it with a cloth to remove any excess.

Before trying to reblue clean the surface with rubbing alcohol. I’ve used a hair dryer to warm the metal surface then applied Birchwood Casey cold blue on a cotton swab. Follow the instruction on the bottle of blue and I’ve had decent results.


This method might improve the overall appearance or might be too far gone especially if it was in a fire. I like to tinker with firearms but to others they might not want to invest the time and effort.

 

[DWalt]

There are several DIY procedures that will improve its appearance some at relatively low cost, but they will not improve the way it shoots nor its monetary value.