Pre model 34?

[roscoe13]

Just picked up today what I'm pretty sure is a pre model 34, probably late production based on Standard Catalog 2nd. S/N 270xx. Is there an easy way to tell if this is an improved I-frame or a J-frame? It is 3-screwed, pinned, flat latch.

Roscoe

 

[s&wchad]

It's an improved I frame. The difference between the I frame and the J frame is the cylinder (1.32" vs 1.44") and frame window length. The Model 34 made the switch in 1960, well after model numbers were introduced.

 

[H Richard]

Grips on the I Frame are also shorter than the J Frame.

 

[roscoe13]

Added pictures to top post...

 

[Hondo44]

Just picked up today what I'm pretty sure is a pre model 34, probably late production based on Standard Catalog 2nd. S/N 270xx. Is there an easy way to tell if this is an improved I-frame or a J-frame? It is 3-screwed, pinned, flat latch.

Roscoe

You have a Model of 1953 Kit Gun on the Improved I frame (2nd improvment). It has the new longer grip which is the same size as the J frame and they both have the larger, elongated trigger guard (egg shaped). The easiest way to tell a 2nd Improved I frame from a J frame with an untrained eye and no tape measure is: notice in your photo that the front of the trigger guard lines up with the space between the front face of the cylinder and the frame. On a J frame, the front of the trigger guard will line up behind that space. The I frame and the Improved I, 1st improvement (coil mainspring instead of leaf spring) will both line up behind the space but they have the smaller, rounder trigger guard.

 

[Hondo44]

Grips on the I Frame are also shorter than the J Frame.

Just so no one is confused: I frame and 1st improvement I frames both have the shorter grip which is the same size as the early Chief Special J frame (or Baby J). But the 2nd improvement I frame has the longer grip of the 1952 and later J frame.

 

[roscoe13]

Thanks Hondo44. Does that mean that grips marketed for J-Frames will fit, or is there a dimensional difference that will be a problem?

Roscoe

 

[diamonback68]

Thanks Hondo44. Does that mean that grips marketed for J-Frames will fit, or is there a dimensional difference that will be a problem?

Roscoe

The current J-frames grips will be about 1/16" too long.

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks Hondo44. Does that mean that grips marketed for J-Frames will fit, or is there a dimensional difference that will be a problem?

Roscoe

Roscoe3,
What Diamondback68 said is incorrect, but understandable. It's confusing. But current J frame grips WILL fit your gun in this post exactly!. It's an Improved I frame, 2nd improvement of 1953.

As I said in an earlier post, there are three different I frames made in the 50's post war era:
Pre war style I frame w/ post war safety, but w/pre-war leaf mainspring and shorter grip.
1st improvement I frame w/ coil mainspring and same short grip. (The .22 Kit Guns seem to have skipped this evolutionary step.)
2nd improvement I frame of 1953 with 1/16" longer grip, same as the J frame.

 

[diamonback68]

Roscoe3,
What Diamondback68 said is incorrect. Current J frame grips WILL fit your gun in this post exactly!.

My bad sorry, I missed that it was a 1953 gun. Need to read more carefully with these old eyes.

 

[jcelect]

Learned something today!

Thanks Hondo44! Today was not a loss, I learned how to look at the I frame changes and tell them apart(I think)! I knew I should have stayed with the post 1957 guns! I picked up 2 32HEs, one in original red box, this past weekend at OGCA and this has got me looking at post war I frames. I wonder how much THIS education is going to cost me?
jcelect SWCA#LM723

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks Hondo44! Today was not a loss, I learned how to look at the I frame changes and tell them apart(I think)! I knew I should have stayed with the post 1957 guns! I picked up 2 32HEs, one in original red box, this past weekend at OGCA and this has got me looking at post war I frames. I wonder how much THIS education is going to cost me?
jcelect SWCA#LM723

jcelet,
My sincerest apologies! It will cost you, I just don't know what cost me the most: getting the education or having the education! I must have a dozen post war 32 HEs up to a 1961 J frame. I think having the education is more costly because once you realize that another variation exists that you don't have, you got to get one. It takes about 17 guns to have them all including all three I frame models, round and ramp front sights, both 2" an 4" barrels and round and square grip variations including the 1957 target model. The good news is, they are not very expensive except for the target model even in boxes. But they are fun to hunt for and fun to shoot them.

There are less variations in the kit guns but some are hard to find and expensive. And there's the 38 S&W models also.

Which variations did you acquire?

 

[greystonedog]

Kit gun info needed

I have a 4" SB Sn 23XXX close in production to the 2" SN27XXX in this thread. Mine is also a 3 screw and the bbl and cyl are numbered, the 2" looks to have a numbered cylinder. My question is about the two pins through the frame just front of the hammer. The rear one on mine is polished flat with the frame, front one has the round ends protruding, looks like this 2" was made the same way. I have several pre 34 and 34 kit guns, all the others have both pins protruding, not polished flat. Like to learn more about this. Thanks

 

[Hondo44]

I have a 4" SB Sn 23XXX close in production to the 2" SN27XXX in this thread. Mine is also a 3 screw and the bbl and cyl are numbered, the 2" looks to have a numbered cylinder. My question is about the two pins through the frame just front of the hammer. The rear one on mine is polished flat with the frame, front one has the round ends protruding, looks like this 2" was made the same way. I have several pre 34 and 34 kit guns, all the others have both pins protruding, not polished flat. Like to learn more about this. Thanks

According to Roy Jinks, it has to do with a procedural change at the factory. Round end pins indicate the pin was installed after the gun was blued. Pins polished flat on the end indicated pins installed before bluing. What you have observed with the difference in pin finishing on different guns is the transitional period over which this procedural change took place.
This change is also evident in other guns of the period and all frame sizes; particularly front sight blade pins on the N frames.