Preferred .40 Ammo?

[ElToro]

my nite stand Sig 229 runs with 180 gr HST

 

[Hoptob]

Remington Golden Saber has good reputation for stopping power - link. I carry it in G23. Smart or not, I carry .40 but I don't train with it because of the ammo cost. For semiauto training I use G19 in 9mm.

Mike

 

[David Sinko]

The 180 gr. GDHP is a very good bullet but I have not been impressed by its performance in the .40 S&W. The .40 lacks velocity and these bullets just don't penetrate well. Given a choice, I'd much rather carry our 180 gr. Jacketed Flat Point practice ammo. Practically every manufacturer makes a good 180 gr. JFP.

Dave Sinko

 

[Deputy]

Glad someone asked this question. I just bought a SIG 226R in .40 S&W (my first .40) and was wondering about the ammo question too. From what I have read, the previous "trend" seems to be towards the medium weight 155-165 grain bullet because they provide the best balance between velocity and penetration. I'm not much for following the lead of the FBI in both gun and ammunition. I've seen them screw up too many times to accept their teaching as "gospel". They just adopted a Winchester 180 grain cartridge as their issue load (Winchester Supreme Elite 180gr PDX).

I have read good things about the CorBon DPX/Thunder Ranch ammo in 140 grain. It's pricey, but doesn't break apart like some bullets.

Most of the negative feedback about the .40 S&W comes from Glock owners. It seems they don't like the "snappy" recoil of the .40 S&W. Many of them have gone back to 9MM because of it. I picked up some Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger LEO bonded, and Winchester Silvertip.

What I was wondering is is the felt recoil noticeably different between the 180 grain and mid-weight 155-165 grain ammo? Does 180 grain FMJ recoil less than 165 grain FMJ? I will be shooting IDPA with this gun so I'd like to pick an ammo weight that gives the least recoil.

I also don't put much stock in the Marshall and Sanow findings. It's been proven that their methods were inconclusive at best.

Dep

 

[CarlP2]

Originally posted by Deputy:
Glad someone asked this question. I just bought a SIG 226R in .40 S&W (my first .40) and was wondering about the ammo question too. From what I have read, the previous "trend" seems to be towards the medium weight 155-165 grain bullet because they provide the best balance between velocity and penetration. I'm not much for following the lead of the FBI in both gun and ammunition. I've seen them screw up too many times to accept their teaching as "gospel". They just adopted a Winchester 180 grain cartridge as their issue load (Winchester Supreme Elite 180gr PDX).

I have read good things about the CorBon DPX/Thunder Ranch ammo in 140 grain. It's pricey, but doesn't break apart like some bullets.

Most of the negative feedback about the .40 S&W comes from Glock owners. It seems they don't like the "snappy" recoil of the .40 S&W. Many of them have gone back to 9MM because of it. I picked up some Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger LEO bonded, and Winchester Silvertip.

What I was wondering is is the felt recoil noticeably different between the 180 grain and mid-weight 155-165 grain ammo? Does 180 grain FMJ recoil less than 165 grain FMJ? I will be shooting IDPA with this gun so I'd like to pick an ammo weight that gives the least recoil.

I also don't put much stock in the Marshall and Sanow findings. It's been proven that their methods were inconclusive at best.

Dep

FWIW, I can't tell any difference in recoil between 165 and 180 out of my M&P.

 

[Deputy]

Originally posted by CarlP2:
[
FWIW, I can't tell any difference in recoil between 165 and 180 out of my M&P.

Cool!!!

 

[Rich S]

as previously stated, about any golddot should do, i like 155/165 because they tend to move at about 1000fps wheras the 180's run a bit slower, 1000fps makes me feel better for some reason.
i am impressed by the M&P's ability to control felt recoil. i have carried a G-27 since about when they came out (could it be almost ten years?)and it is snappy, particularly with the 180's. recently i was issued an M&P.40 which is a really soft shooting gun, even compared to the 6946 i handed in. it is a full sized gun but it seems that changeable backstrap thing is sucking up some recoil too. anyhow i shot it really well.
IMHO any shooting practice is valuable, one sunday recently i went trap shooting then monday evening i was put on the firearm training simulator (F.A.T.S.) machine. in my scenario i had a guy pop out of a house and run across a yard to cover while shooting at me. i nailed him three times in the head as he ran (which freaked some of the other guys out)but i figure it was because i had spent the previous day shooting trap. i don't even recall aiming i was just getting behind a mailbox and trying to return fire.
Regards,
Rich

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by Rich S:
as previously stated, about any golddot should do, i like 155/165 because they tend to move at about 1000fps wheras the 180's run a bit slower, 1000fps makes me feel better for some reason.

The reason is called an expansion threshold, and it's a very good one. I couldn't agree more.

 

[Deputy]

Originally posted by flop-shank:

Originally posted by Rich S:
as previously stated, about any golddot should do, i like 155/165 because they tend to move at about 1000fps wheras the 180's run a bit slower, 1000fps makes me feel better for some reason.

The reason is called an expansion threshold, and it's a very good one. I couldn't agree more.

Actually, that reason is kinda dated. Back in the 70s-early 90s that reason was quite true.
It's why Super Vel ammo was a success.
With the advent of hi-tech bullets like the Black Talon, Hydra Shock, and Golden Saber, it became unnecessary to use +P, +P+, or hi-velocity (above 1000FPS) ammo to get expansion.
The three bullets I listed above expand without the need of hi-velocity.

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by Deputy:

Originally posted by flop-shank:

Originally posted by Rich S:
as previously stated, about any golddot should do, i like 155/165 because they tend to move at about 1000fps wheras the 180's run a bit slower, 1000fps makes me feel better for some reason.

The reason is called an expansion threshold, and it's a very good one. I couldn't agree more.

Actually, that reason is kinda dated. Back in the 70s-early 90s that reason was quite true.
It's why Super Vel ammo was a success.
With the advent of hi-tech bullets like the Black Talon, Hydra Shock, and Golden Saber, it became unnecessary to use +P, +P+, or hi-velocity (above 1000FPS) ammo to get expansion.
The three bullets I listed above expand without the need of hi-velocity.

No. As bullets get closer to their expansion threshold they are less likely to expand under less than ideal conditions. Technology has helped, but in the end the problem still exists. For example, when I fired a Speer SB .38 +P into Perma-Gel through four layers of denim it choked. The same bullet from a SB .357 expanded beautifully. The gun was the same 360 PD in both instances. The variable was the velocity. While technology has come a long way, more velocity equals more fudge factor.

 

[Deputy]

Even .44 magnum hollowpoints can fail to expand. More important than expansion is bullet placement.

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by Deputy:
Even .44 magnum hollowpoints can fail to expand. More important than expansion is bullet placement.

I most definately agree about placement. With a well designed bullet and super high velocity expansion becomes almost as certain as death and taxes. Remington's .357 magnum 125 gr. SJHP from a long barrel is a perfect example. Obviously barriers like drywall can potentially mess with the expansion of the best of ammo.

 

[Deputy]

I don't even know of any major law enforcement agencies using wheelguns yet. Plus the muzzle flash from that magnum will blind you in a night shooting. To say nothing of the excessive wear and tear on your semi-auto from using +P and +P+ loads to practice with. And you WILL have to practice with them if you want to hit anything.

 

[flop-shank]

NYPD still uses revolvers and many LEOs nationwide use revolvers as BUGS.

 

[Deputy]

NYPD is the largest police department IN THE WORLD that issues Glock semi-autos.

 

[Rich S]

it is widely thought that NYPD issues Glocks, they are actually allowed to choose Rugers and S&W's and iirc(?) berettas and sigs. the overwhelming choice is the Glock and so it is thought by many to be their issue gun.
actually NYPD doesn't "issue" sidearms but rather they sell them to the newbies.
there are still a few revolver guys out on the streets ov NYC but fewer and fewer every day. myself and a couple of other forum members collect the NY-1 revolvers (stainless no hammer DAO) that were the last ones used by NYPD to arm their graduating classes from about 1987 to 1989. do the math and you will see that 20 years and out is just about now and many of the guys are selling off their guns when they retire.my wife is really unhappy about this but they can sell them because the guns are their personal property and if ladder 13 doesn't see them first i try to buy them when i can.
hope this helps.
Regards,
Rich

 

[Deputy]

Rich: I remember seeing some NYPD revolvers in a gun shop in Chicago when they first started changing over. They were in great condition.

 

[Rich S]

when NYPD made the leap to semiautos they had some quantity of NY-1 revolvers in stock and i'm sure S&W had some at the factory. they were sold off to dealers and that may be what the fellow in Chicago had. iirc they are NY-1's but don't letter as having shipped to NYPD, to me it is kind of interesting anyway. i have one gun that i suspect is of that variety, just because of it's pristine condition. (most guns that were "in service" have been rode hard and put away wet)the dealer i bought it from said it belonged to a female officer who finished the academy and quit shortly after,but idunno. it is a 3" gun and i don't think they would've been for a newly minted uniform patrol officer,seems they would've gotten regular, more common 4" guns. i could be wrong...
anyhow, talk about thread drift...
lets bring it back,
NYPD doesn't use .40's they still have 9's and 124 gr golddots +p is their fave...
Regards,
Rich