Price check on Model 19 2 1/2"

[RobC2]

These threads are tricky, because when someone asks if something is a good price, to me, there are really two good prices. If it is something you really don't care much about, and you could take it or leave it, that is one price, and it is going to be lower. There is another price, the "I have the money, and it is something I really want, and it is convenient" price. That is going to be a little higher. Based on what I recently paid for my blued 19-3 2.5", that is a good price, but I really wanted the gun too.

The gun looks great!

 

[Sportsterguy]

Congrats and good decision on your new 19! Beautiful specimen and a good investment in the long run IMO. I'm not a safe queen kinda guy BUT IF it's NIB I'd have a hard time shooting it.

Nah, I would at least shoot some light .38's just for a test drive, but thats just me. Keep your maintenance up on it and it will retain most of it's value and you'll have fun at the same time.

 

[gkitch]

perfect!

Looking at the pics, everything is just right. I think the snub Combat Magnum looks best in nickle. The color case hardening looks good on the hammer and the grips are stunning.

There may be a problem with the box. S&W used a gray box for their nickle guns and you are showing a blue box. Perhaps they dropped the gray boxes in 1980?

 

[gkitch]

1966-1985

I checked Supica's SCSW and the gray box was standard for nickle guns until 1985.

I HATE to spoil this for you but it is highly likely they sold you a LNIB gun at a LNIB price but substituted a fake box. You should show us some pics of the box and markings?

 

[MTKTM]

Looking at the pics, everything is just right. I think the snub Combat Magnum looks best in nickle. The color case hardening looks good on the hammer and the grips are stunning.

There may be a problem with the box. S&W used a gray box for their nickle guns and you are showing a blue box. Perhaps they dropped the gray boxes in 1980?

Where guns are concerned I've always bought shooters, not collectibles. I suppose that this might be the very first that I've bought with a primary intention being more "investment" than as a shooter.

Thank you for the heads up on the box. I looked at it and the label on the end is upside down, hand written, and shows a "N" in the Finish box. All the other info matches the gun, SN & such. But I suppose it's possible someone substituted a box. Hopefully not, but if they did it's still a nice gun. If anyone knows whether S&W went to blue boxes for nickel guns at some point, or not, that'd be interesting information.

 

[Simmy952]

That wasn't a steal but not bad. Old model 19 is always a good investment. Mine also came with the tools and a blue box. The blue box for mine matches all the way.

 

[dogdoc]

If it is something you really want, is $100.00 or so going to stop you from buying it? It sure would not stop me if I had to have it. You did fine and got something not so easy to find that you really wanted. This is a hobby, forget all this investment stuff. If a gun appreciates then great, if not and I enjoy what I have so what? Now go shoot it and see if makes you smile. Remember we all die in the long run and you cannot take these toys with you!

dogdoc

 

[MTKTM]

That wasn't a steal but not bad. Old model 19 is always a good investment. Mine also came with the tools and a blue box. The blue box for mine matches all the way.

Is yours a nickel gun? What approximate vintage? Now I'm curious about these, wondering if S&W started using blue boxes when they ran out of grey ones, etc.

 

[MTKTM]

If it is something you really want, is $100.00 or so going to stop you from buying it? It sure would not stop me if I had to have it. You did fine and got something not so easy to find that you really wanted. This is a hobby, forget all this investment stuff. If a gun appreciates then great, if not and I enjoy what I have so what? Now go shoot it and see if makes you smile. Remember we all die in the long run and you cannot take these toys with you!

dogdoc

You're right, and I do not regret buying the gun......and that's what I was doing, buying the gun, not buying a box! But I do think that if I conclude that this box was substituted and essentially a forgery, I'll have a little chat with the shop people as I think they ought to be aware. The gun would have been worth some $ even without a box, but for someone to scam in order to make a few extra $ is poor.

I bought the gun because I had a blue 2 1/2" 19 which I sold years ago, and a 2 1/2" 66 which I also sold, and I just wanted this gun, it is beautiful and as close to perfect as I have seen and I'm happy to have it. They aren't all that easy to find and when a nice one turns up it doesn't last long.

 

[diamonback68]

C'mon guys, where's your thinking? K-frame Model 19s aren't almost $700 guns. Never was and never should be. Problem is, the current craze is the 2/1/2" snubbies, but trust me, it too shall pass. It always does.
"And we continue to create our own inflation in our gun community."

 

[gkitch]

No

You're right, and I do not regret buying the gun......and that's what I was doing, buying the gun, not buying a box! But I do think that if I conclude that this box was substituted and essentially a forgery, I'll have a little chat with the shop people as I think they ought to be aware. The gun would have been worth some $ even without a box, but for someone to scam in order to make a few extra $ is poor.

I bought the gun because I had a blue 2 1/2" 19 which I sold years ago, and a 2 1/2" 66 which I also sold, and I just wanted this gun, it is beautiful and as close to perfect as I have seen and I'm happy to have it. They aren't all that easy to find and when a nice one turns up it doesn't last long.

Please do not lose sight of the actual problem here: You asked us if a LNIB (BOX) gun was worht the asking price. The forum agreed that since it had the BOX and everything it was worth the high$$$, but just barely. You then tried to haggle but the shop did not drop the price because this is a scarce collectors item IN THE ORIGINAL BOX. You paid the COLLECTOR price, since LNI BOX guns like this one do not come up every day.

The correct box was part of the reason you, the forum, and the seller JUSTIFIED the high price.

I now believe the box to be a substituted fake by someone who had a clean sock-drawer M-19 and knew they could get more for it by having a box. The gun without the box is worth no more than $600 tops, with $550 being about right. Clean new labels can be purchased via ebay and all information hand-written to match your serial number. This is a common problem. Whether this box was faked by the shop or by the consignor, we do not know but the shop should have known.
S&W sold blue guns in blue boxes and nickle guns in gray boxes until 1985. This system made organization for distributers and gun shops simple and easy at the time.
I believe the shop owes you at least $100 or they should take back the gun and give you a full refund. Please do not let them treat you like this? If they refuse, we'd all love to know more about them?

 

[Joe in SC]

You'll enjoy that nice little magnum more if you fire it a little from time to time. Having that gun tucked back in the safe would drive me nuts.

The shortest barrel model 19 is a sleeper just like the 2" model 15. Everyone that I have fired was supurbly accurate for a snub. I have a 2 1/2 inch 19 that makes everyone happy that gets to shoot it, including me. Those who haven't fired them can't believe the accuracy until they actually shoot one.

It'll clean up, go ahead and shoot it !

 

[MTKTM]

I've decided to take it back to the shop. They have a policy that all gun sales are final, and I'm sure that's especially true of consignment sales, but under these circumstances I'm thinking they'll deviate from that. I pulled out the S&W Catalog and found where all nickel guns prior to '85 were sold in a grey box, and also that the SN was typically written on (or in?) the bottom in grease-pencil. No such notation in this box. And the more I look at the label, the more new it appears.

I would love to keep the gun, but not at this price. I'm going to ask for my $ back and then offer $500 for the gun without the box. I would not keep the box in any event as I would never want to try to pass it on as NIB, feel that would be deceptive. I wouldn't even want to keep it and try to later sell the gun with full-disclosure because I would not then know what a subsequent purchaser/owner might try to do in order to make a few extra dollars.

I'm fairly certain that the shop didn't "catch" this and is not complicit. I've known these guys for quite a while and don't think they'd do that, but we'll just see how they respond when I drop in there shortly...... Stay tuned.

 

[MTKTM]

Epilogue

I went to the shop and spoke with the owner, he was very decent. He called his consignor and spoke with him at some length, leaving the room while he did. He came back and said he'd write me a check for a full refund. He then asked whether I was interested in buying the gun for $100 off, $580. I told him that I'd give $550 for it, he made another call, and came back saying it was fine. So I am now the happy owner of the 19......sans the box.

I told him that I would buy it for $550 if we destroyed the box. He agreed, so while we stood there he got out a pair of heavy scissors and we cut it up. As I mentioned, I did not want this being used to scam some other gun purchaser down the road.

So.......I now have a very nice nickel 19, like new but no box! For $550. How'd I do???

PS: Thank you all for your assistance here. As I mentioned, I'm not really a collector although I do have the S&W book.....guess I should have studied up before the fact rather than after! But thanks again. I now have a really nice shooter!

 

[18DAI]

I'd say you did fine. Congrats on your 2.5" nickel 19!!

 

[1 old 0311]

This shop won't take a credit card on consignment items, otherwise I would have. But I guess the price was fair. Here are a couple of pics, the lighting wasn't great, but gives an idea. PH 2, yours looks great!

Remember you N-E-V-E-R pay too much for a Smith, sometimes you just buy too soon.

 

[MTKTM]

Remember you N-E-V-E-R pay too much for a Smith, sometimes you just buy too soon.

You're right!!

I have some real mixed feelings about this. I originally bought the gun thinking it to be LNIB. But I soon discovered, thanks to this forum, that while the gun might be nice, the box was wrong and probably a device to jack up the price. So I dealt with all of that and now have the very same gorgeous gun, but no box, for $550 rather than the original price of $680. I now feel like I have "permission" to shoot it, whereas before I was hesitant to do so. It's all good!

 

[gkitch]

Excellent

This worked out great. I'm happy you ending up with the gun at a fair price and equally happy the gunshop did the right thing.

 

[diamonback68]

Now you got the gun at the right price. There's no way the box, papers and tools should jack up the price by $130.

 

[MTKTM]

Now you got the gun at the right price. There's no way the box, papers and tools should jack up the price by $130.

It does not seem like it, but that is often the way it is with collectibles. If they have original packaging they can often be worth not just more, but much much more. I predict that guns in provable "original" boxes or packaging are eventually going to be worth disproportionately more, i.e., a like-new gun without box is worth $500 and the same gun with the original packaging worth $1000. Just wait, watch and see..... It makes little sense, but that's the way true avid collectors (of many things) think.