Priorities

Model 520, it was meant in the most general way.I will attempt to obtain a reference for you if interested.
 
Merci bien une autre fois mon ami
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Ok I give up.
icon_smile.gif
What's the translation?
 
529, if you do a wikipedia search using the quote you will have a good start,I think
Originally posted by Model520Fan:
Originally posted by greengael:
As a newbie I hate to step into the middle of such a lively discussion, however as a philosopher and a barrister I feel compelled.[smile] The notion that "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" refers to the minute, inconsequential, or trivial , is imho, erroneous.The question was used initially to characterise the "Scholastic Debate", i.e. is it a materially based Universe or a spiritually based one. If materially based then all beings occupy space, consequently a finite number of beings could theoretically "dance on the head of a pin". If on the other hand we exist in a spiritually based universe then the number becomes both infinite and superfluous.I apologise for pissing anyone off and will try to restrain myself in the future.[smile] The ramifications of that debate we do see in our politics and religion to this day.
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I am not offended by your interjection. Although it is trivial (or, as Americans have said for probably at least a century, like discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin), it is potentially informative. I say "potentially," of course, because I will eventually have a desire to confirm your report. If you care to speed up the process by providing a reference or two, it would be well received (well, by at least one). However, the ramifications alluded to in the last sentence escape me, unless it is meant in the most general way.

??
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Movement makes it harder for you to get shot. So if I can, I would move fast to cover while drawing or even shooting.
 
Yes, did that , but with over one million entries it was sort of forest for the trees.
 
After one has worked up an accurate load, and has an adequate amount of training to shoot properly, add movement into your training drills. (Where you can do this safely) Start firing while walking towards your target. Then do it walking backwards. Then try lateral and horizontal movement. Go slow at first. This can be very beneficial to your training.
 
I have referenced this in other posts but will say again. I was once part of a review of an incident in which a LEO encountered two really bad guys during a traffic stop for a very minor offense. The LEO was immediately assaulted by gunfire and retreated. That is all he did; never drew his weapon...simply fled...and was susbsequently shot to death whilst seeking "cover" along the roadway.

In my personal experience and involvement in case reviews there is no correct answer to the question posed regarding "priorities" that fits all circumstances. However, I am firm in my belief that offensive action must be the first priority when assaulted. Cover/concealment follows, if possible. But, absent a positive response to the assault the bad guy(s) is relatively free to continue the assault.

In the instant case it is doubtful the LEO could have survived under any circumstance (there was no effective cover/concealment available) and he had been gravely wounded, but there is always that chance, albeit ever so slight, that he could have prevailed had he returned fire.

Note: As in all my posts re: actions of LEO's I attempt to refrain from "second guessing" but do comment in the hope that all can learn.

Be safe.
 
Big D I agree with you. When the Army instructs on small unit tactics, doctrine states that when surprised by enemy fire (ambush)the appropriate reaction is an immediate ATTACK against the source of fire. If you don't get the heads of your enemy down, you won't ever get a chance to seek cover.

Out West
 
One could try investing in concealable soft body armor (or not so concealable hard armor for the home). It's not perfect, but there's a 30 odd year track record of lives saved/injuries prevented. Try www.bulletproofme.com or www.galls.com. A once popular brand name was quite apt : "Second Chance".
 
Originally posted by The Big D:
. . . I am firm in my belief that offensive action must be the first priority when assaulted. Cover/concealment follows, if possible.
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Big D, very thought-provoking and good information. The best defense is a good offense, in other words. Out West pretty well makes the same argument.

This is why I love this board - we can get some great discussions going which help us clarify our thoughts.

Now fellow board member, Massad Ayoob, has written never to draw on a drawn gun. How does that advice fit in?

And perhaps Movement should be differentiated from Cover/Concealment. Searching for cover while under attack puts you in a completely defensive position and takes your attention away from the attacker.

Maybe Cover isn't King. Perhaps it's just Movement. Otherwise known as getting off the X, or as we used to call it Fire and Maneuver.
 
Originally posted by GatorFarmer:
One could try investing in concealable soft body armor (or not so concealable hard armor for the home).
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Well GatorFarmer, I can't argue with you that body armor would be really nice to have if ever attacked. But that illustrates that life has its limits.

Some have told me I'm really dedicated to carry a pistol and backup pistol at all times. My wife thinks I'm off the deep end with it. And I don't know about you, but where I live, it's over 90 degrees most of the year and often humid. I think my dedication runs out somewhere between carrying two guns and wearing body armor daily. Plus my wife would probably want to have me committed at that point.

Some day, God forbid, I might be thinking that I wish I had invested in body armor. But I would rather hope that, at that moment, I would be thinking of shooting and moving and prevailing.
 
Originally posted by t3chnoid:
Erich has a great tag line: "Shot-placement is king. Adequate penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins." That's great because so much discussion is wasted on tiny, insigificant details when discussing carry issues.

But I realized something is missing even in that great tag line. In an armed confrontation (some like to say gunfight), there are two halves of the equation: putting shots on the bad guy and not letting shots land on yourself.

It seems to me that wherever I turn, there is a whole lot of talk, writing, and a lot of practice time spent on the first half of that equation, but I personally consider the second half of much greater importance.

So is Cover king? Or is Shot-placement King while avoiding impact is Emperor? Do you think there's a catchy phrase to incorporate movement, cover, etc?
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While enroute to cover, place two between the pockets of the bad guy!
 
Originally posted by t3chnoid:
Well GatorFarmer, I can't argue with you that body armor would be really nice to have if ever attacked. But that illustrates that life has its limits.

Some have told me I'm really dedicated to carry a pistol and backup pistol at all times. My wife thinks I'm off the deep end with it. And I don't know about you, but where I live, it's over 90 degrees most of the year and often humid. I think my dedication runs out somewhere between carrying two guns and wearing body armor daily. Plus my wife would probably want to have me committed at that point.

Some day, God forbid, I might be thinking that I wish I had invested in body armor. But I would rather hope that, at that moment, I would be thinking of shooting and moving and prevailing.
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I live in Virginia. Prior to this I lived in Michigan, WI, GA,and WA. I've been wearing a IIIA vest daily for ten years. It gets 90 plus degrees in most of those places during the summers. Concealable armor isn't that bad if you wear a wick-a-way shirt and tolerable even if you don't. Couple of months and you stop noticing it. Stay hydrated in the meantime. (This presumes that someone is reasonably fit to begin with and doesn't have a health problem that would preclude doing so.)

My wife bought me the vest that I wear now.
 
Originally posted by t3chnoid:
Now fellow board member, Massad Ayoob, has written never to draw on a drawn gun. How does that advice fit in?
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Sounds a bit more dogmatic than the Massad Ayoob I've heard from. Never covers a lot of ground. Care to share where that quote was from?

I seem to remember a specific case where he said that one SHOULD draw and shoot regardless.
 
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