Problem with M&P 10mm + Customer Service Nightmare

[DesertFox]

I have a one strike yer out rule with all my stuff. Life is too short for cheap duct tape or dealing with insolence from machines. 4th and long - punt.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

This is the replacement/second pistol. Unfortunately, that suggests a more fundamental design problem, not merely one defective pistol.

Sorry. Read the first few pages, then skipped to the last. Missed the replacement.
And you are right. 2 lemons by one owner is ridiculous.

 

[Frank Black]

This is the replacement/second pistol. Unfortunately, that suggests a more fundamental design problem, not merely one defective pistol.

Sorry. Read the first few pages, then skipped to the last. Missed the replacement.
And you are right. 2 lemons by one owner is ridiculous.

Two back-to-back, malf-ing Lemons signals a design defect, although arguably it could be isolated to a small but critical part ... Like maybe the mag release mechanism, in combination with being undersprung for shooting “real” 10mm factory ammo.

If S&W refunds you, I’d considering putting the money toward either the new Sig 10mm P320 or possibly one of Grand Power’s 10mm pistols, the P40 (4.25”) or the P40L (5”).

 

[mark_lives_things]

I'm intrigued by the 320, but also hesitant be an early adopter again. I already took one for the team, it's someone else's turn

 

[rosewood]

I'm intrigued by the 320, but also hesitant be an early adopter again. I already took one for the team, it's someone else's turn

Wasn't the 320 the one that had the recall issues with it going off if dropped wrong? Not sure I would want to give that one a shot with a 10mm platform. But who knows.

Rosewood

 

[Autonomous]

This sucks, sorry about you being at the wrong end of a not ready for production pistol purchase.
As I mentioned above, I've read of too many new to market 10mm pistols with issues.
I have a Springfield Armory XD-M 10mm that has been good. Should S&W refund you, and they should, consider one of those
.

 

[Old Navy]

What really sucks is no replacement spring for 4" and 4.25" guns of any caliber M&P by Wolff. Only the 4.6" versions for some reason.

I'll shoot mine till it fails since I bought it to plink with light loads off the back deck here at the house. It's not a big deal for me, if I had known of the problem(s) I still would have bought one. For others here I'm sorry for your frustration, poor service and monetary loss.

 

[rosewood]

What really sucks is no replacement spring for 4" and 4.25" guns of any caliber M&P by Wolff. Only the 4.6" versions for some reason.

Worth a shot. You can always cut off a coil or 2.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

One thing that puzzles me is the frame flex theory, in that the M&P 2.0 line has a steel chassis that pretty much runs the length of the frame, supposedly to minimize flexing.
Yet a Glock 20, 29 or 40 has nothing of the sort and is the gold standard for reliability. Glock brags about the flex, saying it leads to softer recoil.
Apples to oranges comparison or time to abandon the flex argument?

 

[Autonomous]

I suspect flex is a marketing gimmick.

 

[luvsmiths]

This sucks, sorry about you being at the wrong end of a not ready for production pistol purchase.
As I mentioned above, I've read of too many new to market 10mm pistols with issues.
I have a Springfield Armory XD-M 10mm that has been good. Should S&W refund you, and they should, consider one of those
.

The S/A is a GREAT gun

Glock also.

They are both proven.

 

[Autonomous]

The Glock is a proven pistol. It is also proven that it's 22° grip angle and I are not compatible.

 

[luvsmiths]

The Glock is a proven pistol. It is also proven that it's 22° grip angle and I are not compatible.

Some people just can't get on board with that, and I get it!

Then the S/A with a grip angle like a 1911.... perfect! ( for me anyway)

 

[Autonomous]

The 22° grip angle is fine for me on a .22 pistol, just not on larger caliber pistols. Not logical at all.
The only guess I can come up with is with a .22 I'm okay taking the time to aim each shot and on a potential self-defense gun I want an accurate point and shoot piece. Dunno.

 

[Old Navy]

I tried some 180gr LTC/Poly over 5.1gr of W231 and 180gr LTC/Poly over 5.1gr of unknown powder (due to smudged ink and the difference in gun is astounding. It was hard to hold on to with unknown powder. Currently best guess is W244, but I will check tonight or tomorrow. Also, the cases dropped about 8' to 10' from me not 25 or more out.

With the unknown powder the gun was loud like a hot load and out of 30 rounds I had 6, IIRC that failed to feed but I had not slapped the back mag on hand as I usually do after loading a mag. After slapping the backs I had no more failure to feed.

 

[Old Corp]

Sorry the OP had to go through all the mess...... - I'd be in worse humor than him.

Makes me a little more OK with my only 10mm's - my prior-duty M1076, boringly reliable with every level of 10mm load and a Colt Delta Elite SS with Novak adjustable sights - also has been surprisingly reliable, considering it's pretty heavily sprung and has a Wilson Shok-Buff in it. Still works OK with the 10mm LITE as well as hunting loads.

 

[Tannhauser]

I really hope S&W steps up for the OP.

At a certain point maybe consider trying a heavier recoil spring if it looks like S&W are going to drag their feet.

 

[mark_lives_things]

Pistol is on its way back to S&W for a refund. I'll summarize everything in a final write up, but here's the bottom line:

-The magazine drop malfunction happened consistently with three different types of ammunition.
-It happened with three different shooters, all of whom are firearms instructors.
-It happened with 10--yes, 10--different magazines.
-It happened with two different M&P 10mm pistols: the original that I purchased and one that was sent to me as a replacement, in exchange for the first.
-All of the above is well-documented with video.
-Numerous other users have reported the same issue. Links to some reports can be found in this thread.

Given all this, I think it's clear that there is a design defect in the M&P 10mm pistols that makes them an inadequate platform for full-power 10mm ammunition. As a huge M&P fan, this is very disappointing, but I don't think there's any other reasonable conclusion to be drawn here. It seems highly improbable that I just happened to get *two* dud pistols that malfunction consistently and in precisely the same manner.

S&W has yet to acknowledge this defect. I hope they will. It's also possible that they will quietly revise the design--stronger mag catch? heavier recoil spring?--without acknowledging the problem publicly, but I hope they will be transparent.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

I wouldn't count on transparency. S&W seems about as eager to address concerns as Bill Belichick.
SIG had issues with the P365 for a few months and just did what needed to be done. Quietly.

 

[ansehnlich1]

By the way, here's a link to videos of the mag drop happening with the second/replacement pistol. (See the Twitter thread linked in the first post of this thread for vids of the same issue with the original gun): Update your browser to use Google Drive, Docs, Sheets, Sites, Slides, and Forms - Google Drive Help

Thanks for the thread. Thanks for putting up with all the b.s.

I'm shopping 10mm handguns. In fact, I know where two Smith's are right now. Looked at 'em today. I ain't buyin' either of them.