Professor Called Police After Student Presentation

Actually, he should contact the NRA and then a lawyer that the NRA refers him to. I suspect that this professor's contacting the campus PD may be "actionable" because it sure sounds like harrasment to me.

However, I still question the wisdom of permitting students with no combat training to carry on campus. Anytime I see some report about a police firefight it always seems that most of the shots fired by the cops miss, and they do receive some combat training. There is a big difference between punching holes in paper at the range and shooting at someone who is shooting at you. I have a bad feeling that permitting students to carry might result in a lot of "friendly fire" casualties. However, if there were any ex special ops military personel attending college, I would strongly endorse letting them carry.
 
Originally posted by scooter123:

***snip***

However, I still question the wisdom of permitting students with no combat training to carry on campus. Anytime I see some report about a police firefight it always seems that most of the shots fired by the cops miss, and they do receive some combat training. There is a big difference between punching holes in paper at the range and shooting at someone who is shooting at you. I have a bad feeling that permitting students to carry might result in a lot of "friendly fire" casualties. However, if there were any ex special ops military personel attending college, I would strongly endorse letting them carry.
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That makes no sense whatsoever. Am I to understand that you would prefer that a person bent on murdering as many people as possible should be able to go to a university campus and kill until he/she runs out of ammo? Or perhaps until the campus police shows up and perhaps puts an end to the killing? Am I to believe that to you, THIS is preferable to a responsible adult having the right to carry the very tool that could mean the difference between living and dieing because this person isn't James or Jane Bond? You are correct in your contention that "there is a big difference between punching holes in paper at the range and shooting at someone who is shooting at you". Do you know what the biggest difference is? Punching holes in paper is one of the things that one does to prepare as best as possible for that instant in which there really are people shooting AT YOU! None but the most experienced operators and those rare people with ice in their veins will react to a firefight the way the heroes in the movies do. To deny a law abiding responsible adult the right to self defense is just plain wrong.

Do you carry a firearm? If so, can you guarantee that in a firefight you would put each and every round on target? There are VERY few who could even come close. Dose that mean that YOU shouldn't have the right to carry, or hell, even own a firearm. I mean... after all, even if you don't carry in public, you might have to shoot at someone invading your home. There is a real possibility that one or more of those rounds might very well travel outside of the confines of your home. Come on... someone needs a reality check.
 
Having shot some action combat in years past I have not been overly impressed with th shooting skills of many LEO.This is not to denigrate them,but their departments often don't give them enough training and ammo to be great handgunners,and many of the LEO's can't afford a lot of practice ammo.The civilian shooters may consider shooting an active hobby such as golf and devote more time and money to learn skills that may be called on to save their lives.
 
Originally posted by scooter123:
Actually, he should contact the NRA and then a lawyer that the NRA refers him to. I suspect that this professor's contacting the campus PD may be "actionable" because it sure sounds like harrasment to me.

However, I still question the wisdom of permitting students with no combat training to carry on campus. Anytime I see some report about a police firefight it always seems that most of the shots fired by the cops miss, and they do receive some combat training. There is a big difference between punching holes in paper at the range and shooting at someone who is shooting at you. I have a bad feeling that permitting students to carry might result in a lot of "friendly fire" casualties. However, if there were any ex special ops military personel attending college, I would strongly endorse letting them carry.
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Horse hockey!

I think you should "rethink" that. I served in the military, didn't see any combat but had firearms training. Assuming that I hadn't, would that mean I was not capable of carrying a concealed handgun for self defense? I fully know my capabilities. I know the difference between being able to make a "safe shot", i.e. one that doesn't endanger someone else. I think your qualifications for someone to carry is just a bit out of line.

Yes, I know some people are just plain dangerous when they have a gun in their hands, however we are talking about a life endangering situation where someone must defend their life. They didn't start it. Hopefully they can finish it.

Who would you rather "have the gun?" The good guy or the bad guy. Either way may have a down side but not permitting the "good guy" to carry can only go one way.

I'll take my chances with the good guy any day.
 
Originally posted by Gutpile Charlie:
Originally posted by scooter123:
Actually, he should contact the NRA and then a lawyer that the NRA refers him to. I suspect that this professor's contacting the campus PD may be "actionable" because it sure sounds like harrasment to me.

However, I still question the wisdom of permitting students with no combat training to carry on campus. Anytime I see some report about a police firefight it always seems that most of the shots fired by the cops miss, and they do receive some combat training. There is a big difference between punching holes in paper at the range and shooting at someone who is shooting at you. I have a bad feeling that permitting students to carry might result in a lot of "friendly fire" casualties. However, if there were any ex special ops military personel attending college, I would strongly endorse letting them carry.
Click to expand...

Horse hockey!
I think you should "rethink" that. I served in the military, didn't see any combat but had firearms training. Assuming that I hadn't, would that mean I was not capable of carrying a concealed handgun for self defense? I fully know my capabilities. I know the difference between being able to make a "safe shot", i.e. one that doesn't endanger someone else. I think your qualifications for someone to carry is just a bit out of line.

Yes, I know some people are just plain dangerous when they have a gun in their hands, however we are talking about a life endangering situation where someone must defend their life. They didn't start it. Hopefully they can finish it.

Who would you rather "have the gun?" The good guy or the bad guy. Either way may have a down side but not permitting the "good guy" to carry can only go one way..
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Yup, me too.
 
He should sue her and the school, and the ACLU should be knocking on his door to do so, but I won't hold my breath.
 
Ah, academia.

Ok, I'll preface my statement with the fact that I hit stuff with pieces of wood for a living so why should my opinion matter? Couldn't tell ya.

All I can say is that somewhere there's a seriously wealthy sheep farmer because he just continues to crank 'em out and turn 'em loose on american college campusses.
 
We have to be careful in letting them "allow" us to protect ourselves with a level of training. Soon no one will meet the training requirements.

The deterrant is that the criminal knows there may be someone armed to resist them. That fact will stop most of these cowards.
 
Being shot at is different for everybody. The first time someone shot at me he was too far away to be effective but what was weird is that everything slowed down to a dreamy, thick thing like walking thru a deep swimming pool. I’m not a smart fast thinker and obviously words are not my strong point but when important things like bullets happen my mind and decision making process change. It is almost like I have extra time to decide, drop, go right, can I get there, is someone over there going to get a better line on me. Other people tell me they don’t even know what happened at first they just reacted but here they are standing in front of me as a survivor.
I sometimes wonder if my reactions are because I was still young enough to think I was invincible.
Back to the point, I think we all should be armed and ready because you never know when a situation will come up. My youngest daughter will be leaving for collage soon and I think if she were to be killed at school I would rather have it by a misplaced round fired by a person fighting back meant for the nut job but missed, instead of from the nut job walking around unopposed executing anyone hiding under a desk. I guess that is because I personally would rather make my last stand behind my gun instead of cowering under a desk.
 
Parallel, I carry just about 24/7. I also spend about 60 bucks a week practicing at the range. I'm also 54 years old and know myself well enough to feel that I'll remain calm enough to use my gun well should I need to. However, I also remember what I was like at 20 and attending Ohio State. Too dead broke to hit the range more than once every 2 or 3 months and not nearly as calm as I am today.

Frankly, what comes to mind if your average college student had to respond to an active shooter is that he would probably end up spraying rounds without hitting his target once. As crowded as college classrooms are today, that is not something that I want to see happen. Which is why I don't favor letting an untrained 20 something carry on campus. However, our returning Vets have been under fire and are very well trained in combat. So, they are a group who I think should not just be permitted to carry on campus, they should be encouraged to do so.

For me, it's not a matter of permitting some people to carry on campus, it's a matter of who we permit to carry.

PS, I spend enough time at the range that I am starting to question if anyone under 30 should be permitted to carry. Last week some kid in his tacticool pants and tacticool vest was shooting with his tacticool laser at 20 feet and his target ended up looking like a collander, a whole lot of holes all over the target but not one single distinct group. Frankly, I could have done better with my eyes closed. After that exhibition, I can't help but wonder what he was doing with a gun.
 
Originally posted by scooter123:
Actually, he should contact the NRA and then a lawyer that the NRA refers him to. I suspect that this professor's contacting the campus PD may be "actionable" because it sure sounds like harrasment to me.

However, I still question the wisdom of permitting students with no combat training to carry on campus. Anytime I see some report about a police firefight it always seems that most of the shots fired by the cops miss, and they do receive some combat training. There is a big difference between punching holes in paper at the range and shooting at someone who is shooting at you. I have a bad feeling that permitting students to carry might result in a lot of "friendly fire" casualties. However, if there were any ex special ops military personel attending college, I would strongly endorse letting them carry.
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So what you're saying is that you prefer the CERTAINTY of being murdered execution style by Cho Seung Hui to the POSSIBILITY of being WOUNDED by a student with a concealed handgun who stops the mass killing?

Well, you wouldn't be the first with that attitude, nor I'm sure will you be the last.
 
Scooter123 I think you just came down on the wrong side of an issue. Admit your wrong and cut your losses.
icon_rolleyes.gif
 
There is no basis for any part of the action of the faculty member or the University PD. None. Period. Advocating a change in the law which makes whiners uncomfortable is right in the core of American First Amendment history. Hell, I used to take the same position as the kid espoused when I was teaching CJ classes. To have a communication professor deviate so far from clear classic First Amendment protection and violate this kid's rights in this manner justifies not less than termination.

As for the PD, why the hell would they even bother? It drives me nuts when I see calls on the screen which do not even arguably have a criminal law violation alleged, a public safety need, or any other basis for LE action. I may call the complainant and clarify, but without a lot more I am not going to such a call.
 
This simply proves the theroy that, "too much education destroys brain cells."....Archie Bunker
 
Originally posted by scooter123:
Parallel, I carry just about 24/7. I also spend about 60 bucks a week practicing at the range. I'm also 54 years old and know myself well enough to feel that I'll remain calm enough to use my gun well should I need to.
Click to expand...
Really? Have you put that to the test? I have seen experienced men both military and law enforcement, some who were accomplished marksman fail miserably in a life or death situation.
Originally posted by scooter123:
However, I also remember what I was like at 20 and attending Ohio State. Too dead broke to hit the range more than once every 2 or 3 months and not nearly as calm as I am today.
Click to expand...
I have also seen a young man with zero combat experience and little life experience react like a well oiled machine. Even then, who is to say what the reaction will be for anyone at any given moment? The next time the roles may be reversed.
Originally posted by scooter123:
Frankly, what comes to mind if your average college student had to respond to an active shooter is that he would probably end up spraying rounds without hitting his target once. As crowded as college classrooms are today, that is not something that I want to see happen. Which is why I don't favor letting an untrained 20 something carry on campus. However, our returning Vets have been under fire and are very well trained in combat. So, they are a group who I think should not just be permitted to carry on campus, they should be encouraged to do so.
Click to expand...
Again, I think that you are taking a lot for granted. You cannot say who will react in what way, especially if the people in question have never had to find out how they would react.
Originally posted by scooter123:
For me, it's not a matter of permitting some people to carry on campus, it's a matter of who we permit to carry.
Click to expand...
As has been noted by others in this thread... that is a slippery slope.

Originally posted by scooter123:
PS, I spend enough time at the range that I am starting to question if anyone under 30 should be permitted to carry. Last week some kid in his tacticool pants and tacticool vest was shooting with his tacticool laser at 20 feet and his target ended up looking like a collander, a whole lot of holes all over the target but not one single distinct group. Frankly, I could have done better with my eyes closed. After that exhibition, I can't help but wonder what he was doing with a gun.
Click to expand...
I am beginning to note a pattern of elitism in how you look at other shooters/gun owners. Unless you have had to pass the test and survive a firefight, you can't possibly know whether you would prevail in a firefight with Mr. tacticool or not.
 
Originally posted by Jack Flash:
Originally posted by rewster:
“After all, a university campus is a place for the free and open exchange of ideas.”
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This cannot be farther from the truth ! The only ideas that can be discussed are those that fit the veiws of the university in question. If you don't agree with them, your ideas and any exhange about them is off limits.
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+1.

That is a myth. Academics like to flatter themselves that it's true, but they only allow a free and open discussion of ideas they approve.
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Please don't paint ALL academics with that brush - esp. me. Of course, you are largely correct, but it doesn't help "our argument" when we overstep this way.
 
This kind of stuff bothers me...I just graduated from college in May 2008 from William and Mary (Williamsburg, VA) and I was in class when the Virginia Tech murders occured. That night many students, myself included, gathered to support eachother. Unfortunately one of my idiot classmates decided that it would be a great time to talk about the evils of the 2nd Amendment. Wrong time and wrong place for that. My peer group is so coddled and sheltered that many of them seem to be incapable of even conceiving of the thought that there are evil people out there. They seem to think that talking and singing Kum-ba-ya can solve everything, and that if we just banned guns all the violence would stop. They're ignorant and naive. If someone breaks into my house intent on hurting me, you can be sure I won't be greeting them with a song.
 
Originally posted by parallel:
Originally posted by scooter123:
Parallel, I carry just about 24/7. I also spend about 60 bucks a week practicing at the range. I'm also 54 years old and know myself well enough to feel that I'll remain calm enough to use my gun well should I need to.
Click to expand...
Really? Have you put that to the test? I have seen experienced men both military and law enforcement, some who were accomplished marksman fail miserably in a life or death situation.
Originally posted by scooter123:
However, I also remember what I was like at 20 and attending Ohio State. Too dead broke to hit the range more than once every 2 or 3 months and not nearly as calm as I am today.
Click to expand...
I have also seen a young man with zero combat experience and little life experience react like a well oiled machine. Even then, who is to say what the reaction will be for anyone at any given moment? The next time the roles may be reversed.
Originally posted by scooter123:
Frankly, what comes to mind if your average college student had to respond to an active shooter is that he would probably end up spraying rounds without hitting his target once. As crowded as college classrooms are today, that is not something that I want to see happen. Which is why I don't favor letting an untrained 20 something carry on campus. However, our returning Vets have been under fire and are very well trained in combat. So, they are a group who I think should not just be permitted to carry on campus, they should be encouraged to do so.
Click to expand...
Again, I think that you are taking a lot for granted. You cannot say who will react in what way, especially if the people in question have never had to find out how they would react.
Originally posted by scooter123:
For me, it's not a matter of permitting some people to carry on campus, it's a matter of who we permit to carry.
Click to expand...
As has been noted by others in this thread... that is a slippery slope.

Originally posted by scooter123:
PS, I spend enough time at the range that I am starting to question if anyone under 30 should be permitted to carry. Last week some kid in his tacticool pants and tacticool vest was shooting with his tacticool laser at 20 feet and his target ended up looking like a collander, a whole lot of holes all over the target but not one single distinct group. Frankly, I could have done better with my eyes closed. After that exhibition, I can't help but wonder what he was doing with a gun.
Click to expand...
I am beginning to note a pattern of elitism in how you look at other shooters/gun owners. Unless you have had to pass the test and survive a firefight, you can't possibly know whether you would prevail in a firefight with Mr. tacticool or not.
Click to expand...

WOW! You said just about exactly what I was thinking, but was to lazy to type.
Thanks for saving me the trouble.
 
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