Proper Sight Picture?

[magnum12pm]

I don't think that they "want" to, they just do. Further, it's really common to blame the equipment for poor performance. Not because a person thinks they are perfect, it's just normal to look for exterior sources of error. So, we blame the gun, the sights, the ammo for shots that consistently go where we don't intend.

Heavy triggers with a long pull, like the M&P, lend themselves to a slight flinch right at sear break. What's really amazing about people is that we can be very consistent with this. Thus, we shoot a group that is 1" in size, but low or low/left. Because the group is so small, it's only natural to think the problem is with the gun. I mean, if it were us, wouldn't the group be bigger? Unfortunately, that's not the case.

In more scientific terms, we tend to be repeatable, but not accurate due to a small flinch.

Good thoughts for sure!

 

[jynx1966]

re visit this post

I've been shooting since I was 10. i'm now 50. I earned several medals in the military for marksmanship. I'm not bragging. I just want to make clear that I know how to use a gun.
recently I bought a S&W Governor. and had the same issue as the Person who started this post, seems I could only hit the center if I made a pyramid instead of ( equal light, Equal height). so I put a bore sight laser on it and ligned up the sights. sure enough the laser was a good 2" low. the only way I could get the sights to line up with the laser Dot was to raise the front sight ( like a pyramid ). i've never seen this on a gun with fixed sights ? I wish I could return it.

 

[Rastoff]

i've never seen this on a gun with fixed sights ? I wish I could return it.

If you've read this thread then you know my position on this already. So, I'm not going into it again.

However, assuming your gun is bad, you can return it. Call S&W. Tell them your gun has an issue. They will give you a FREE shipping label to send the gun back to them. It normally takea about 10 days to get the gun back in your hands. They will fix it as long as you own the gun. That's the beauty of buying a S&W, lifetime warranty.

 

[srderb]

My guess is that you are not focusing on the front site, but rather on your target. This can cause you to dip the front sight as you look over it to the target. When you begin high this makes up for it. Once you have alignment bring focus to front sight with target blurry. Your eye/brain will keep you centered on the blurry target.

 

[jynx1966]

thank you

Sorry for the mix up, I was trying to add to the whole forum, not just to you specifically. I'm sure all the sight are the same so I doubt the gun is defective, just has a learning cure that I can't seem to grasp. so I don't care for it, but I do appreciate your quick response and feedback.
Thank you.

 

[metricmonkeywrench]

With my M&P9 and my eyes the dots do not line up and I end up with the pyramid effect as well. I focus on and square off the front sight with the rear sight and really pay no attention to the dots, probably atributable to firing military Beretta's and 1911's and our wheel guns. My POA floats between #2 and 3 depending on the ammo I am using and the available light (the old lights up sites up) since I shoot on an outdoor range.

 

[jynx1966]

Thank you for your Feedback. I searched all over the internet for anything that indicated that some guns are set up that way, but couldn't find anything. I guess it doesn't matter as long as I'm hitting the target.

 

[Rpg]

Try blacking out the dots.

I find dots slow things.

You may well find that your shooting improves and your poi is where it's supposed to be.

 

[CQB27]

"Dots" are for low light shooting at close quarters. In low light one can superimpose the front dot over the point of aim. For daylight shooting the front sight post centered and flush with the rear sight notch produces point of aim = point of impact hits.....without obscuring the intended impact point with the front sight post. If you look closely at the example of different sight pictures posted below and in post #14, sight alignment #2 and #3 produce the same result, it's just a matter of perspective, i.e. are you looking at the front sight post or the dots. :

 

[jdalex80]

I, too, have the same issue with shooting low when dots are lined up. My fix was to paint the entire front sight red/orange so I wouldn't notice the misalignment of the white dots.

Yes, even in broad daylight, I see the dots more than the entire post.

You can see that in the picture that the dots are lined up the top of the front sight post is below the rear sights. Where as when the top of the post is lined up correctly with the top of the rear sight, the dot on the front sight is higher than the dots on the rear sight (Pyramid).

 

[jynx1966]

Good Tip

thanks I will try this and see if it helps. I also replaced the trigger with the Apex trigger. no more long squishy pull followed by a hard squeeze. I kept anticipating the bang , but instead would hit that wall, this caused me to jerk the gun, now I have very little play and a smooth 4 lbs trigger pull.

 

[jim46ok]

Maybe it's just me, but... every fixed-sight gun with 3-dot sight setup I have ever fired has required that the center dot be lined up with the side dots, and that the center dot cover the intended POI. Use the 6 o'clock hold, and I'm shooting low.

As stated in other places, some here, that MFG intended POI may vary a little from brand to brand. The method of 6 o'clock hold works better on like a rimfire 25 yard target, with the small bull. My Shield's POI is similar to yours, I find I do better with intending POI to be right at the top of the front sight blade. And yes, these are not intended to be target guns. Just getting to know where that particular POI is reassures the shooter just exactly what is going on.....

 

[kthom]

My preference is to black out the dots on the rear sight and paint the front sight, dot and all, with florescent green paint. I prefer my rear sight to be black, but the paint on the front helps me to make certain where my front sight is on the target. These days, I am only interested in suitable accuracy for personal protection needs.

 

[Valueman]

My preference is to black out the dots on the rear sight and paint the front sight, dot and all, with florescent green paint. I prefer my rear sight to be black, but the paint on the front helps me to make certain where my front sight is on the target. These days, I am only interested in suitable accuracy for personal protection needs.

I also prefer a plain black rear sight. I grew up shooting 1911s with Bomar sights, and I find dots on the rear sights to be a distraction. If you look at my recent post about my new PC Shield you will see that I swapped the FO sights for a set with a plain black rear sight and a night sight on the front

I can certainly achieve acceptable combat accuracy with three dot sights, but i get better accuracy without dots on the rear sight. Perhaps that is a personal limitation, but at this point in my shooting life I am an old dog who really has no desire to learn a new way.

I shoot with both eyes open, and when I train for combat shooting I try to focus entirely on the front sight, trusting that the rear sight will have acceptable (for combat accuracy) alignment purely from muscle memory. Using that method I have no issue keeping shots center mass even when firing very rapidly. 90%+ in the down zero ring at 30 feet won't win a bullseye match, but that is not the goal.

 

[kthom]

Valueman,

You said it much better than I, but you and I are on the same page!!

 

[lwestatbus]

Did You Ever Solve This Issue?

Red,

Did you ever solve this issue? I have the exact same problem and recently started this thread about the issue. I found your thread doing a general web search.

Thanks.

Larry

 

[richardw]

"Dots" are for low light shooting at close quarters. In low light one can superimpose the front dot over the point of aim. For daylight shooting the front sight post centered and flush with the rear sight notch produces point of aim = point of impact hits.....without obscuring the intended impact point with the front sight post. If you look closely at the example of different sight pictures posted below and in post #14, sight alignment #2 and #3 produce the same result, it's just a matter of perspective, i.e. are you looking at the front sight post or the dots. :

I have a laser bore sight device for my 22 Compat. When turned on at 25 feet the red dot lines up as in sight picture #3.

 

[Bleek Gilliam]

thanks I will try this and see if it helps. I also replaced the trigger with the Apex trigger. no more long squishy pull followed by a hard squeeze. I kept anticipating the bang , but instead would hit that wall, this caused me to jerk the gun, now I have very little play and a smooth 4 lbs trigger pull.

You're supposed to shoot from the "wall".....take up and stage at the wall then squeeze to fire. Release just enough to reset to the "wall" and repeat. You don't fully release the trigger as you would with a revolver. The M&P foes not have a long trigger pull when the trigger is properly manipulated.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[lgjhn]

Always had problems with the 3-dot setup. No so much for self defense, but for any kind of range work.
I totally black em out and seem to do much better. But I prefer to use the "Straight 8s" when I can find em. I can acquire my sight picture much quicker with the straight 8s.
They do take a little practice to get used to, but once that's done, they're quick to acquire. I really like em.