Q: Any troubles with S&W internal locks?

[Frank V]

I have talked to one person who had the lock lock up when he didn't want it to. In all fairness he had a J frame on the table in his kitchen, he walked by, bumped it, it fell onto the hard floor & locked up.

This is probably a real severe test, but in a defense revolver would I want my gun to lock up if dropped? That's my sole experience with the lock. I don't like the looks of it & I think the guns with the lock sit higher in your hand than those without the lock.

Would I buy one with the lock?
MAYBE.

 

[Erich]

Frank is referencing me, Dave. I oafishly knocked my 60-15 off the counter on to the hardwood floor and the lock self-engaged in a weird way. You can search here on my username and "oafishly" to see the whole story - I've endlessly recounted it around the Web for years and I just can't bring myself to write it up again right now.

If you do a search here on the forum for "ILIF," you will find a lot of info.

And look at this:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...e-poll-now-open-rational-data-discussion.html

 

[XAVMECH]

IL - still your choice to use

I have this feature on four of my S&W revolvers. Like many of you, I prefer to purchase a model without this feature - if available. My 637 has it, and I engage the lock if the gun is left in my vehicle's storage vault. That may sound like overkill, since the vault's pretty stout, but it's just due diligence IMO. Unless a gun is with me, it is stored in the safe - or vehicle vault. So, this 637, with its lock activated and deactivated these many times - has always functioned without any kind of a hiccup. I keep a key on my key ring. I'm sure there are times when such a device could be useful, and while removal of same is always an option - I would not disable this feature. If I had any lack of confidence in terms of it impeding the function of my revolver, I would choose a different piece altogether. Ergonomically, it's well positioned - but I agree that it does nothing to improve the looks of the gun

 

[BigBill]

My new S&W m58 with the IL I shot it at the range on one trip with standard federal 410gr. JHP loads and had no problems. My other three new revolvers with the IL have been cycled numerous times to burnish in the moly. No problems in cycling them.

Leave the new S&W n frames for me I'll take them.

Three years ago my dealer had all the s&w n frames on sale for $599/$699. I walked out fat, dumb, happy with a empty wallet. I won't hesitate to purchase more brand new S&W revolvers. I found out later about the MIM/IL makes no difference to me. My new SA 1911a1 has the key start too.

IF IT SAVES ONE CHILDS LIFE ITS WORTH HAVING THE LOC. SAFETY FIRST.

 

[Vortec MAX]

I have about 600 rounds through a 638, 100 rounds through a 438, and 100 rounds through a Governor without any issues. All have the locks, but none have ever even had the keys inserted.

Mike

 

[Dave Workman]

Weeeellllllll, I think we can wrap this up.

 

[Rick_A]

IF IT SAVES ONE CHILDS LIFE ITS WORTH HAVING THE LOC. SAFETY FIRST.

If you are relying on an internal lock for child safety you should not own a gun.

All these morons saying, "I have kids, it needs a manual safety."

Good Lord...

 

[diyj98]

If you are relying on an internal lock for child safety you should not own a gun.

All these morons saying, "I have kids, it needs a manual safety."

Good Lord...

Some of the same folks use that argument for all the various gun bans as well.

 

[DonD]

So you beat the dead horse anyway.

In the case of the ILS debate, the beaters are the whiners who quite unreasonably fear inadvertent ILS engagement and those who obsess over the ILS opening, neither of which have much merit in my view. Don

 

[Frank V]

I know this has been kicked around for a loooong time, & hopefully worrying about inadvertent IL locking on a defense gun is needless. It may never happen, but it may? Murphy is alive & well so if I can eliminate one possible glitch should I? If it's my life we are talking about..... YOU BET!
If it doesn't worry you by all means go for it, but don't make light of someone who it does bother.

What with S&W prices what they are right now, we can usually buy an older used S&W without the lock cheaper than we can buy a brand new one with the lock.
Guess which one I'll buy?
YMMV.

 

[Rick_A]

I have two lock guns. One is a replica of a gun that sells for extravagant prices. The other is a common gun that sells for more used in the pre lock varieties, as those are more scarce. The used lock version was a bargain.

In these cases de-locking the lock versions made a lot more sense than getting a $4-5k collectable for general use or hunting down a pre lock and paying more for it.

Mechanically and aesthetically both are just as good as anything I've seen.

 

[Mister X]

Massad Ayoob, Grant Cunningham, Michael de Bethencourt and David Kenik have told me they've seen failures and therefore recommend avoiding the internal lock on any gun to be used as a self-defense weapon. Good enough for me, so I say no to internal locks.

 

[mstem]

I don't really care for the looks of the IL's but they really don't bother me a lot either. I have a bunch of S&W's with the IL. The guns I bought to put up for my granddaughter, I have the IL's locked so no one can turn the cylinders. I have locked & unlocked the lock on my 686 carry gun just to see if it would cause a problem. So far it hasn't. And I'm not worried that it will. And as far as MIM, I could care less about that. I have read that MIM is just as strong or stronger as forged parts. I'm not an expert so I can't really say.

As far as removing the locks on these guns, I talked to my lawyer about that. He just happens to be a gun guy & has S&W with & without the locks. His advice was leave the lock alone!!!! He said if you were involved in a shooting & the lock was removed or tampered with the Commonwealths Attorney would have a field day because you altered the gun. He said it was my decision but if I had a craving for jailhouse food go right ahead! He went to law school, I didn't so I'll listen to him. I've heard about jailhouse food & I don't want it. All of you can do as you see fit.

 

[Rick_A]

Just 'cause the man is lawyer does make him a legal expert on all matters.

Every gun comes with a cable lock as well that serves the same function. If the gun is used for a legal shooting the whereabouts of that lock will have as much bearing as that of the IL...none.

 

[riverrat38]

Maybe I bought the gun used. From an estate sale.
I can't be accused of altering the gun. Must have been that the deceased done it! Heck, I thought it was just where I was supposed to squirt the oil!

Best,
Rick

 

[3rdRRU_PhuBai]

About six years go I bought a new 60-15, noticed the IL hole in the side and the IL key in the box, read about possible IL lockup, sold the 60-15 online, unfired w/box, papers etc, and bought a used 60-10 because I like to keep it simple.

 

[mbliss57]

I own or have owned at least a dozen guns with the IL. I don't use the lock but I have never had one that failed. Didn't go bang. I prefer to carry guns w/o it just from stories I have read. But not every gun is is purchased as a CCW. Although it seems many imply they are. I shoot a lot of targets, steel challenge, USPSA and just plinking. These new S&W revolvers are excellent for that. I personally don't like the look but I don't obsess over it. If the gun is well made and suits a need or scratches an itch I am buying it.

 

[frankcr]

My revolver is for range work only, so the IL does not bother me in the least.

I can understand people who carry for SD being concerned although the chance of IL failure when the gun is needed is very small indeed.

Much has been said that removing it would possibly be used against a person in court. If so, the lawyer defending you is not worth his salt if he cannot prove the lock is for storage only and has no bearing on safety of the gun. If you carried the lock worry to the extreme, that would be in the same category as saying you had the gun loaded during the event and did not just load the chamber when it was necessary to shoot. By having a loaded gun, you were looking for trouble??? What a crock.

I would remove one from a SD revolver with no concern that it could be charged in court that the gun was unsafe as the lock has no bearing on the function of the gun.

 

[Harkrader]

I have a 329 which is a hand-hammering beast. It has been my main trail gun for backpacking since '04. I stopped taking the key after about 2006. If 310-grain Garrett Super Hardcast, or my handloads won't move that sucker, I don't think anything will.
I have a number of guns with the IL, including 386's, 327's and 627's and none has ever been a problem. My Performance Center 27-8 has it too, and after some 1,000 rounds through it I leave the key at home.
I like to thoroughly test any gun I'm going to depend on, using the ammo I'll carry in it, or an equivalent cheaper one. My basic test is 200 rounds, except for the 310 Garrett or my similar handloads in the 329. I hope to keep my hands attached to my wrists.

Sooo, just my thought: test it; carry it. If you think you need the key, the gun needs attention or you should remove the lock. Any possibility, however remote, that it might lock up when you need it makes the gun an expensive door stop.
Mine all work fine.

 

[at_liberty]

I don't really care for the looks of the IL's but they really don't bother me a lot either. I have a bunch of S&W's with the IL. The guns I bought to put up for my granddaughter, I have the IL's locked so no one can turn the cylinders. I have locked & unlocked the lock on my 686 carry gun just to see if it would cause a problem. So far it hasn't. And I'm not worried that it will. And as far as MIM, I could care less about that. I have read that MIM is just as strong or stronger as forged parts. I'm not an expert so I can't really say.

As far as removing the locks on these guns, I talked to my lawyer about that. He just happens to be a gun guy & has S&W with & without the locks. His advice was leave the lock alone!!!! He said if you were involved in a shooting & the lock was removed or tampered with the Commonwealths Attorney would have a field day because you altered the gun. He said it was my decision but if I had a craving for jailhouse food go right ahead! He went to law school, I didn't so I'll listen to him. I've heard about jailhouse food & I don't want it. All of you can do as you see fit.

You would simply need a lawyer competent to defend against the absurd notion that removing the lock had any bearing on the incident.