Question About the Extractor Tube

[Klein Helmer]

I purchased a new Smith and Wesson 629 in the spring (my first gun) and have really been enjoying it.

But something strange happened at the range today. I was noticing repeatedly that the cylinder would either catch, or stick when I was trying to disengage it in order reload. I asked one of the employees if they could take a look at it, and he explained to me that the extractor tube had become a bit loose. He tightened it and the issue was resolved.

Anyway, is it normal for the extractor tube to become loose on its own? I was watching a video on youtube about removing the cylinder, and the person narrating the video said that removing the cylinder tube would likely require a pliers. If that is the case, it seems to me that mine should not have loosened on its own - I have probably fired approximately 150 rounds through it since purchasing it.

I was also wondering, would there be any concern regarding having damaged the gun when trying to disengage the cylinder while it was sticking? I initially had no idea what was going on, so I repeatedly opened and closed it - which required more force than when the extractor screw was fully in place. I know that even steel wool can scratch a gun, so could the friction produced by disengaging the cylinder with more force than usual have damaged it?

I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who has answered my questions in the past. I am new to this and trying my best to gain as much knowledge as possible.

 

[Klein Helmer]

Quick Update:

I just took the gun out to clean it, and the cylinder extractor was already loose again.

 

[1911 45]

I would post this question in the S&W smithing section I'm sure somebody will be able to help you.

 

[qballwill]

it is common for the extractor rod to loosen up. It is probably the most common issue that causes cylinders to stick. No big deal. If you dont plan on taking it apart very often, try just a little blue locktite on the threads. I personally just get a leather belt for padding on the knurled end and tighten it with pliers. Not too tight though

 

[DocGlock]

I personally just get a leather belt for padding on the knurled end and tighten it with pliers. Not too tight though

Also, put at least a couple of empty cases opposite each other in the cylinder before tightening.

 

[Lou_NC]

Do you have access to a drill with a good chuck, preferably a drill press? Rather than trying to grip the extractor tube with a pliers (even padded with leather) I prefer to remove the cylinder from the gun by removing the yoke screw (above the trigger on the RH side of the gun), then sliding the yoke and cylinder off the frame. The yoke will come right off the cylinder, leaving the cylinder with the ejector tube attached.

Now take several empty cartridges and place them in the chambers (2 or 3 will do). This protects the extractor during the next step. Take the ejector tube and insert it in the jaws of the drill chuck as far as it will go, and tighten the chuck carefully. If you do this without twisting the ejector tube as you tighten it, you won't mark the ejector tube. Tighten the chuck like you would when you are putting a drill in the chuck. Now grab the chuck with one hand and the cylinder with the other (while ensuring that you have empty cases in the chambers) and tighten the ejector rod by turning the cylinder counter-clockwise. Don't "honk" down on it, but tighten it firmly. The threads are very fine. You are not tightening the lug nuts on a car, so don't go overboard. If you have absolutely no "feel" for mechanical things, have a friend who does handle this job for you! :)

I've been using this technique since reading about it in this Forum and it works great. I've never marked an ejector tube, including blued ones. I don't need loctite on my ejectors anymore.

There are specialty tools available to clamp the ejector tube for tightening, which basically "grip" them through their complete circumference. However, since I own a drill press with a good chuck, I haven't found the specialty tools necessary.

Good luck,
Lou

 

[RichCapeCod]

Also, put at least a couple of empty cases opposite each other in the cylinder before tightening.

+1,000 if you try and tighten the rod with empty chambers you will damage your handgun.

 

[Klein Helmer]

I would post this question in the S&W smithing section I'm sure somebody will be able to help you.

Thanks for the heads up, I guess I hadn't noticed that subforum yet.

If a moderator sees this, maybe the thread could be moved there.

it is common for the extractor rod to loosen up. It is probably the most common issue that causes cylinders to stick. No big deal. If you dont plan on taking it apart very often, try just a little blue locktite on the threads. I personally just get a leather belt for padding on the knurled end and tighten it with pliers. Not too tight though

Appreciate it.

I think I probably will probably disassemble it from time to time once I get the Jerry Kuhnhausen shop manual and some tools. Is locktite just a substance one can put on the threads? That does sound useful, how long would it take for me to be able to remove the extractor rod once the locktite had been applied?

 

[Klein Helmer]

Do you have access to a drill with a good chuck, preferably a drill press? Rather than trying to grip the extractor tube with a pliers (even padded with leather) I prefer to remove the cylinder from the gun by removing the yoke screw (above the trigger on the RH side of the gun), then sliding the yoke and cylinder off the frame. The yoke will come right off the cylinder, leaving the cylinder with the ejector tube attached.

Now take several empty cartridges and place them in the chambers (2 or 3 will do). This protects the extractor during the next step. Take the ejector tube and insert it in the jaws of the drill chuck as far as it will go, and tighten the chuck carefully. If you do this without twisting the ejector tube as you tighten it, you won't mark the ejector tube. Tighten the chuck like you would when you are putting a drill in the chuck. Now grab the chuck with one hand and the cylinder with the other (while ensuring that you have empty cases in the chambers) and tighten the ejector rod by turning the cylinder counter-clockwise. Don't "honk" down on it, but tighten it firmly. The threads are very fine. You are not tightening the lug nuts on a car, so don't go overboard. If you have absolutely no "feel" for mechanical things, have a friend who does handle this job for you! :)

I've been using this technique since reading about it in this Forum and it works great. I've never marked an ejector tube, including blued ones. I don't need loctite on my ejectors anymore.

There are specialty tools available to clamp the ejector tube for tightening, which basically "grip" them through their complete circumference. However, since I own a drill press with a good chuck, I haven't found the specialty tools necessary.

Good luck,
Lou

Thank you.

I certainly do not have any "feel" for mechanical things - that, coupled with the fact that I didn't even know what some of the things you referenced were, seems to be a pretty good indicator I should not get too ambitious here.

I was tightening it with my finger tips, while the gun was still assembled, and I was twisting it as hard as I could. Do you think that level of force may have caused any problems?

Also, could anyone recommend an extractor rod tool?

I came across these two:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/77...tool-smith-and-wesson-j-k-l-n-frame-revolvers

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...actor-tools/extractor-rod-tool-prod26886.aspx

The second one (Brownells) looks better to me, but I really have no idea.

Anyone have experience with either of these?

 

[Klein Helmer]

Also, put at least a couple of empty cases opposite each other in the cylinder before tightening.

+1,000 if you try and tighten the rod with empty chambers you will damage your handgun.

uh oh...



I definitely was not aware of that - nor was, apparently, the rube at the gun range who tightened my extractor rod without any mention of empty casings.

Although, both of us only tightened it by hand, so maybe since less force was involved than had a tool been used, my revolver is safe? Should I be worried? If damage had occurred, how could I make this determination?

Also, is two (or three- I've seen both mentioned) the specifically correct number of casings advisable to use during the process, or is it just that at least two/three should be used? Would it be alright to fill the entire cylinder with empty casings while performing the tightening?

 

[Klein Helmer]

This is why I'm glad I grabbed the 629 on the spot when I special ordered my Performance Center V Comp 627 - thank god I got all of these beginner boners out of the way before my baby showed up.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Under no circumstances should you use Loctite or any thread locker.

 

[Klein Helmer]

Under no circumstances should you use Loctite or any thread locker.

Not asking because I doubt you, just genuinely interested - Why do you say this?

 

[DWalt]

There are several different grades of Loctite. For the strongest, it is virtually impossible to loosen a threaded joint that has been Loctite-ed. In the mid-range, the joint must be heated with a torch or similar. But the lowest-grade Loctite can be loosened by using hand tools without heating. That might be OK for those loose ejector tube threads, but I wouldn't do it. S&W's reason for going to a LH thread on the ejector tube was that recoil caused loosening of RH threads.

 

[5Wire]

The blue Loctite is not permanent. No problem using it. Nail polish works, too.

 

[Lou_NC]

Although, both of us only tightened it by hand, so maybe since less force was involved than had a tool been used, my revolver is safe? Should I be worried? If damage had occurred, how could I make this determination?

Based on my experiences finger-tightening an ejector rod, I seriously doubt whether any damage to the threads could have taken place, unless you or the guy at the range had incredibly strong, vice-like fingers! :)

I've finger-tightened ejector rods many times and it works for a while. The only problem is that they seem to loosen again over time unless tightened a little more "firmly" by gripping the ejector rod with a tool of some kind.

Lou

 

[Lou_NC]

EXTRACTOR ROD TOOL | Brownells

The second one (Brownells) looks better to me, but I really have no idea.

I don't have any personal experience with either of these ejector rod tools, but if I were to purchase one of them, it would be this one from Brownells. I like the idea that it grabs the complete circumference of the ejector rod, rather than "squeezing" it in the jaws of a pair of vice grips.

But again, using the chuck of a good quality drill will work fine too.

Lou

 

[TucsonMTB]

You can achieve about the same effect as the Brownells tool with a piece of wood by drilling a hole just a little larger than the knurled portion of the ejector rod and then making a saw cut that enters the hole. I used a four inch scrap of bamboo that is about half an inch wide and probably about a quarter inch thick. It isn't round like the Brownells tool but the portion that grips the rod looks very similar.

I use my vise to tighten the block around the ejector rod and then tighten gently by turning the cylinder with my hand. That rod always seemed to come loose by the end of a range session, making releasing the cylinder a challenge until you recognize what is happening. Not any more . . .;)

One of the Midway revolver videos on YouTube mentioned filling the charge holes with snap caps. So, I had that issue covered. The wood, or bamboo in my case, grips the rod without leaving any marks.

Why yes, I am "cheap". How did you know? :o

 

[DocGlock]

What I use is a wooden clothes pin and pliers. I can't believe I forgot to put that in an earlier post on this.

 

[RichCapeCod]

Finger tightening should not have caused a problem. There are small pins underneath the ejector (star shaped thing that ejects rounds from the cylinder). If you try and tighten the rod without empties in the chamber the "star" will twist, sheering off the little pins. That's not a good thing.

Rich

 

[TucsonMTB]

What I use is a wooden clothes pin and pliers. I can't believe I forgot to put that in an earlier post on this.

That's a great tip for a range bag tool. Thanks!

Now . . . when was the last time i saw a clothes pin and where was it? :o

 

[RichCapeCod]

Just pad the contact point between the tool used and the ejector rod. Smiths that I've watched used a lead pad. For your purpose the wood idea sounds like it'll work just fine. Your goal is not to mar the end of the rod with the teeth of the tool.

 

[kaaskop49]

Here I go again: If you're not familiar with the tools necessary for the job (as I am not!), would it not be better to have a gunsmith perform the work correctly?

 

[TucsonMTB]

Here I go again: If you're not familiar with the tools necessary for the job (as I am not!), would it not be better to have a gunsmith perform the work correctly?

I have to agree that having a professional do the work is always a good option, especially if you have a good smith nearby and/or lack the tools and skills yourself.

However, there are many shooting enthusiasts with as much tool and machining experience as the average gunsmith. Many have remarkably complete tool boxes as well.

Just my opinion, of course. With the tools I own, it is fun to do a lot of the non-electronic work on my own cars. A little dirt under the fingernails is good for the soul. ;)

I leave the difficult, safety critical, and messy stuff for my favorite automotive professionals.

 

[Green Frog]

Before you do much at all in the way of gunsmithing, I strongly advise you read Jerry K's book carefully and perhaps one or two other sources as well. Advice being given on this or any other forum is of mixed value (no offense guys) and will quite often be contradictory because the rule one guy thinks inviolable is bent rather badly by someone else who either "just gets away with it" or has a specific reason for doing so. :rolleyes:

As to the OP's initial situation. I personally would advise him to first take the e-rod all the way out and clean everything, then assemble the cylinder and ejector sub-assembly clean and dry, using a tool (I have one like the Brownell's unit) and at least 2 (I use six, but that's probably overkill) empties in the chambers. If you use the tool and tighten everything up as tight as it will go with just hand pressure on the cylinder and little disc shaped tool, everything should stay tight until the next time you need to take it apart for detail cleaning. If the threads are worn from doing this dozens of times, a little nail polish or Loc-tite™ may be needed, but this is not routinely so. :)

That's my story, and I've done it many times for myself and others with guns from I-frames up through Ns, but don't trust me... check it out with Jerry, or the NRA guide, or whatever trusted source you like. :cool:

Regards,
Froggie

 

[Lou_NC]

Here I go again: If you're not familiar with the tools necessary for the job (as I am not!), would it not be better to have a gunsmith perform the work correctly?

It's like I tell my kids, if you're convinced that you CAN'T do something, then you're RIGHT. If you're convinced you CAN do something, then you're RIGHT! :)

I don't mean to pick on anyone here, but every machinist, mechanic, and brain surgeon I know started out life as a clueless baby. The really good ones had an inner desire to learn, practiced a lot, gained skill steadily, learned from their mistakes, and equally important, knew their limitations along the way.

I say this to encourage folks who have the desire to tackle mechanical work to find a mentor, use the resources available to learn (books, the internet, etc), and jump in and start somewhere. Tightening an extractor rod is a well documented procedure, so anyone with the desire should not be afraid of it.

Now if you have absolutely zero iterest in the subject, then by all means don't torture yourself and force yourself to do it! But if you have the desire, jump right in.....don't be afraid to learn new things, it's one of the joys of MY life! Maybe it's just my DNA........:)

Lou

 

[kaaskop49]

The above 2 posters make some very good points and I welcome their responsible reactions. There's more than one horse in a race!

Yet I have found (and bought) too many 'pre-owned' handguns that a previous owner has 'kitchen-tabled' and have required follow-up gunsmithing to put them right. And at my expense, but that is the least of it.

Do what you want with your handguns, people, just don't expect me to buy them after the fact, or trust the safety of my family to them. Have a nice day.