Question for older LEOs

[Mule Packer]

Not to hijack a thread, but a forum member, Disector, is a real artist when it comes to making saps or blackjacks. Here are some that he made.

In our state, we can carry one if we have a concealed carry permit. Of course, a sap or jack certainly won't take the place of a firearm, but it sure doesn't hurt to have one tucked away in the side pocket of the door of the truck. I guess I'd call it "extra insurance"...just in case.

 

[Old cop]

I started in 1968 and carried a blackjack until our agency outlawed them sometime in the early 1980's. From there we were issued something called an ASP, a small spring loaded metal baton. To my way of thinking the ASP was capable of doing far more damage than my blackjack. I still have the blackjack as a keepsake. I once used it on a dead cruiser battery and the car started, go figure.

 

[adwjc]

The reliability of walkie talkies as impact weapons in my time (when we were issued one) :

Motorola HT 220s - too light, and the battery cover came off,

GE "Brick" great, literally was the size of a building brick, outstanding,

GE with the twist off battery on the bottom -NG -battery always broke off,

Motorola MX series, with the slide on battery on the bottom - outstanding,

Newer Motorola programmable - too light, flimsy -NG.

 

[policerevolvercollector]

I have used various impact weapons over the years with a decent amount of success. But, pepper foam (not spray) was without a doubt far more effective than anything I ever used. The spray always had overspray issues. There is nothing quite like overspraying your backup officer in a fight and putting them and/or you out of the fight.
The foam works like a charm though. I used it several times. One that stands out was a bipolar guy who was off his meds & had just beat up his pregnant sister. I and another officer were on his back on the ground trying to cuff him and he was doing doing pushups. A one second burst of the foam did the trick. You'd believe I'd hit him w/ a Louisville Slugger. He got his probation revoked over that one and did some prison time. Everytime I see him on the street now, he apologizes and tells me I'll never have to do that again.

 

[OLDFED]

The Above Comments...

...speak volumes about my time starting in '64. Spring saps, lead gloves, wooden nightsticks, .38 LRN cartridges and little training compared to the "new breed". I carried a 5 cell Ray-O-Vac flashlight with a 3.5 inch head on it until I was charged by a drunk one day. I didn't see him coming until the last moment and was able to sidestep and crack him across the forehead, primarily as a reflexive move on my part. He went down but so did the light...in many pieces! Believe it or not, I "invented" the aluminum police light that night, but had no idea how to go about designing, manufacturing and patenting that, so others went on to make their fortunes. As I look back, there was little guidance on what to use or carry in those days. That said, I never knew of a case where the officer over-reacted or seriously damaged a perp without truly just cause. We used our words for the most part and it seems to have worked. Those were the days when the police had the respect of the community. We also wore "dress" uniforms. While I always wished that we could "dress down" for the night work, our chief was out of the '30's and definitely old school. He would be appalled that officers today dress as they do. I applaud it because it fits the needs of the job, looks good and is COMFORTABLE!

 

[ikor]

I know guys who still use them today. Some in uniform and others not so much. The sap is a wonderful tool if used wisely...especially a good flat sap.

 

[ferretray]

By the time I went through the academy the use of the sap etc was considered barbaric and abusive. Although I never understood how the bosses could find a beating with an Asp somehow better than a sap or a mag lite or other improvised weapon. Was the sap really that brutal? Did it do that much damage to the perp? And honestly, how many people that took the beating didn't deserve at least a little bit of what they got?

Not many fellows using a sap had formal training with em', going by the Lawdogs I knew from around the late 60's/early 70's.
ASP training targets (Hopefully) non-lethal strike zones.
Best use of an impact weapon I've personally observed were done by a Marine MP Corporal and a Japanese police officer.
The Marine took down a drunken mob, never striking above the waist. The JP took down two large servicemen so quickly it was almost surreal.
ETA: I'm not a LEO, but have used the nightstick and ASP to good effect at work.
MANY years ago I worked security at a hospital where a nurse had been abducted from the parking lot, then raped and murdered, prior to them hiring security. The fellows in the engineering dept. made me up a section of thick cable wrapped in tape. Worked very well (And a Second Chance vest)against a knife wielding nut one night.