Yea, that's what I do for my modern carry guns as well.
Question on ammo for my 30's era 1905
- Thread starter Buddiiee
- Start date
Yea, that's what I do for my modern carry guns as well.
flagman1776
Member
Although S & W seems to be reluctant to publish the information these days... back in the 1970s, S & W official statement was MODEL MARKED (as previous posters have already correctly described) STEEL FRAMED revolvers were rated for +P. Earlier, non-model marked revolvers were considered to "not be" so rated. There is discussion of just when cylinders were all being heat treated, but in this context, it's unimportant.
38 Special caliber Police loads of the day were the 158 round nosed lead variety. I fail to see that a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter bullet shape in the same bullet weight would make a difference in pressures.
I believe the OP just wanted to shoot his heirloom gun a few times. Look for any standard lead bullet load or even WC reduced target loads.
38 Special caliber Police loads of the day were the 158 round nosed lead variety. I fail to see that a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter bullet shape in the same bullet weight would make a difference in pressures.
I believe the OP just wanted to shoot his heirloom gun a few times. Look for any standard lead bullet load or even WC reduced target loads.
I have the low pressure rounds already, I was just curious to see if these older models could even take a cylinder or two full of modern +P's without ruining the pistol permanently. I know some old pistols out there you run one +P in them and they're done, which is why I ask.
flagman1776
Member
Would a couple of rounds of modern +P ruin your heirloom revolver? "Probably not." Especially as modern +P through the miracle of modern powder advances and/or the insistence of ammo companie's corporate lawyers. But why would you take the chance? It's a lose lose situation for you. If you want to know what it was like for your grand-dad / copper to fire his revolver... restore the original factory grip shape and load duplicate ammo. If we're wrong and you heirloom is damaged... maybe it could be repaired with other antique parts (remember the parts were hand fitted) and hand fitted by a skilled pistol smith. It will cost more than the gun is worth and it will never be original, even them. Smith won't work on "older Smiths" anymore citing lack of new parts.
I recall a buddy's embarrassed phone call. He'd touched off an "inappropriate" load in his 1942 .38 Special Victory model and the forcing cone was split. He was fortunate... in those days S&W service center would still work on "older Smiths" but of course there were no new 30 year old barrels to be had so they offered a new current M10 barrel. But his heirloom revolver isn't original anymore. (apologies to "Chaz for telling your story)
I recall a buddy's embarrassed phone call. He'd touched off an "inappropriate" load in his 1942 .38 Special Victory model and the forcing cone was split. He was fortunate... in those days S&W service center would still work on "older Smiths" but of course there were no new 30 year old barrels to be had so they offered a new current M10 barrel. But his heirloom revolver isn't original anymore. (apologies to "Chaz for telling your story)
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My own appreciation and acceptance is do not use Jacketed or Semi Jacketed Bullets in the pre War K Frames.
The "+P" thing tends to leave out that many or most +P are Semi Jacketed.
Just stay with Lead Bullets and you will be fine.
The "38/44" Heavy Duty .38 Special Loads of the latter 1920s, 1930s were generally more stout than today's "+P"s are, and while the pre-War K Frames were advertised as being "Okay" with the Heavy Duty Loads of the day, these were all Lead Bullets, and 'Okay with" ( paraphrasing of course ) was only meant to mean, as an emergency Gun Fight sort of thing, and not as a steady diet.
Jacketed and semi Jacketed tend to crack the Forcing Cones, and with this, we find endless Cases of 'New Old Stock' WWII 'Victory' Barrels still in cosmolene and brown paper, made to have on hand for replacing Barrels who's Forcing Cones were being ruined with the GI Hardball.
This was fairly well known at the time, somehow less so now.
The "+P" thing tends to leave out that many or most +P are Semi Jacketed.
Just stay with Lead Bullets and you will be fine.
The "38/44" Heavy Duty .38 Special Loads of the latter 1920s, 1930s were generally more stout than today's "+P"s are, and while the pre-War K Frames were advertised as being "Okay" with the Heavy Duty Loads of the day, these were all Lead Bullets, and 'Okay with" ( paraphrasing of course ) was only meant to mean, as an emergency Gun Fight sort of thing, and not as a steady diet.
Jacketed and semi Jacketed tend to crack the Forcing Cones, and with this, we find endless Cases of 'New Old Stock' WWII 'Victory' Barrels still in cosmolene and brown paper, made to have on hand for replacing Barrels who's Forcing Cones were being ruined with the GI Hardball.
This was fairly well known at the time, somehow less so now.
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flagman1776
Member
Chaz would never tell me the load. The bullet was a home cast 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter.
Walter Rego
Member
The old 158 grain lead round nose, standard velocity ammo carried by cops for many decades were often referred to as "widowmaker" loads for their often ineffective results when used in gunfights. Of course then, as now, shot placement is key but never the less street results were the impetus for more effective +P type loads and better bullet designs.
If limited to standard velocity loads for self defense purposes a wadcutter loaded to greater that paper punching velocity levels but still under +P levels would be a good choice.
If limited to standard velocity loads for self defense purposes a wadcutter loaded to greater that paper punching velocity levels but still under +P levels would be a good choice.
So it's a forcing cone thing, not so much a split cylinder thing... I see... Never thought of it that way.
hkcavalier
US Veteran
Weakest part fails first.
daddio202
Member
That is why the heavier lead bullets are optimal. The projectile fills the entire barrel cylinder gap while transferring from cylinder to barrel, whereas the smaller projectiles do not- allowing the hot gases to escape the b/c gap and further eroding the forcing cone. I once spoke to a representative at Hogdgon powders and as he told me (there is no free lunch so the lighter bullet or slightly slower burning magnum powders take their toll on the gun especially if the combination of both are used).This is more a factor in 44 magnum and 357 magnum.
flagman1776
Member
I not a person with the skills or equipment to change revolver barrels so I've not been shopping for items I don't need. I did find a supply of 38 S&W barrels (made for British and Commonwealth service in 5" lengths). I believe the internal dimension were the same for these as 38 S & W Special barrels.
So it appears there is new old stock barrels which could be adapted to repair a Victory model.
I suggest there's a world of difference between an heirloom collectable and a repaired old shooter gun.
So it appears there is new old stock barrels which could be adapted to repair a Victory model.
I suggest there's a world of difference between an heirloom collectable and a repaired old shooter gun.
