Question on the L85A2 rifles carried at QE2 funeral

[PALADIN85020]

I observed with interest the odd way the British bullpup L85A2 rifles were carried during the ceremonies for the funeral of Queen Elizabeth II.

Carried for marching, the soldier held the arm with his right hand, tucked upside down under his right arm. His left arm was held in back, the hand grasping the barrel of the gun.

In marching, it appeared that gun had disappeared under the right arm, with only the hooded scope being visible. It appeared that the left arm was simply held behind the back, when in truth, the hand on that arm grasped the barrel.

So my question is - was this a special protocol for carry when a deceased high ranking individual is being honored, or is it standard carry? It seemed way awkward to me.

John

 

[Justin T]

I noticed this too, and for a bit I actually thought the rifles were upside down, having glimpsed a bit of grey magazine body.

Odd.

 

[Ameshawki]

Yes, that's a funeral thing. Not the usual method. Reversed Arms I think they call it. Don't know what the history of is off the top of my head.

 

[ggibson511960]

I am a huge fan of English military pomp and circumstance. The world envies and copies the English tradition of guard duty esprit de corps. But on this one point I quibble with the British sense of pageantry. It is all out of context to have drum and bugle corps carrying space age looking bullpup rifles. Decorum dictates old rifles like chromed SMLE Enfields with 2 foot long bayonets, all commensurate with ancient military corps and their slavish adherence to tradition. The Coldstream Guard should not be carrying Star Wars weapons.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I have seen drawings-not photographs of Lincoln's funeral procession, the troops are carrying their muskets in the Reversed Arms position.

 

[LVSteve]

I am a huge fan of English military pomp and circumstance. The world envies and copies the English tradition of guard duty esprit de corps. But on this one point I quibble with the British sense of pageantry. It is all out of context to have drum and bugle corps carrying space age looking bullpup rifles. Decorum dictates old rifles like chromed SMLE Enfields with 2 foot long bayonets, all commensurate with ancient military corps and their slavish adherence to tradition. The Coldstream Guard should not be carrying Star Wars weapons.

If they wanted Enfields for the Guards then they would have had to rent them off American collectors. There's way more here than in the UK, I reckon. The late, great John Sukey had North of 300 if I recall correctly from the auction after he passed.

At least the space age guns had consistency for the proceedings. Of the Enfields in my safe, I doubt more than two of them have the same wood and/or metal finish. History has left its mark on those old guns.

 

[smoothshooter]

I am a huge fan of English military pomp and circumstance. The world envies and copies the English tradition of guard duty esprit de corps. But on this one point I quibble with the British sense of pageantry. It is all out of context to have drum and bugle corps carrying space age looking bullpup rifles. Decorum dictates old rifles like chromed SMLE Enfields with 2 foot long bayonets, all commensurate with ancient military corps and their slavish adherence to tradition. The Coldstream Guard should not be carrying Star Wars weapons.

Those bullpup style of rifles are probably awkward to carry in any position.
Someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in, but don’t those rifles have a reputation for being ****? I know that’s the reputation the previous model had.

 

[BB57]

If they wanted Enfields for the Guards then they would have had to rent them off American collectors. There's way more here than in the UK, I reckon. The late, great John Sukey had North of 300 if I recall correctly from the auction after he passed.

At least the space age guns had consistency for the proceedings. Of the Enfields in my safe, I doubt more than two of them have the same wood and/or metal finish. History has left its mark on those old guns.

The SMLE would not have been my ceremonial choice, anymore than I’d choose the 1903 or M1 Garand for ceremonial use in the US.

In current US ceremonial service, the M-14 fills the bill quite well and far better than the M16 or M4.

Similarly, the L1A1 would be far better suited to ceremonial duty for the UK, without being as dated as the SMLE and without lack of traditional looks of the L85A2.

 

[racoonbeast]

I think that they should be carrying Brown Bess's. Not that "bloody mechanical musket" that I have heard the troops like to refer to it as.

 

[LVSteve]

Those bullpup style of rifles are probably awkward to carry in any position.
Someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in, but don’t those rifles have a reputation for being ****? I know that’s the reputation the previous model had.

The latest version is really a H&K product that looks like the original L85. It's a vastly improved rifle over the original jammo-matic.

 

[LVSteve]

The SMLE would not have been my ceremonial choice, anymore than I’d choose the 1903 or M1 Garand for ceremonial use in the US.

In current US ceremonial service, the M-14 fills the bill quite well and far better than the M16 or M4.

Similarly, the L1A1 would be far better suited to ceremonial duty for the UK, without being as dated as the SMLE and without lack of traditional looks of the L85A2.

Oh please, NOOOO!!! Not the Stupid Long Rifle!!

 

[SF VET]

speaking of vintage British rifles, back in about 1960, the first rifle, in fact, the first firearm I ever bought, was (is) a 1915 SMLE MKIII, in of course 303. For ten bucks out of a barrel at a five and dime store, with my lawn mower money, (at a buck a yard). Later, bought several Mausers the same way.

I shot it over the years, bought a Ted Williams stock refinish kit in a small metal box, which I still have, and a long bayonet too, which I used to clear weeds down by the lake. A year ago carefully examined my Enfield, and while it is in great shape, great wood and all, the barrel was shot out. Maybe from wartime cordite use Anyway, sourced a replacement barrel, from the same era, new, from Sarco, and mailed my rifle and barrel to a specialist for Enfields; he moved the sights and such, re-did the bolt and whatever else was necessary, new springs and more, for I think about $300. With our recent and ongoing move I have not had a chance to shoot it with my reloads, some given to me by a member of this forum. But no doubt it is back to the condition it was when it left the armory over a hundred years ago. I gently removed the stock varnish I put on back in the 7th grade. Old Enfields, like Nagants, used to be cheap to pick up but no longer,

SF VET

 

[PALADIN85020]

I have seen drawings-not photographs of Lincoln's funeral procession, the troops are carrying their muskets in the Reversed Arms position.

Another tradition from those times was a riderless horse with boots facing rearward in the stirrups to honor the deceased.

John

 

[PALADIN85020]

Those bullpup style of rifles are probably awkward to carry in any position.
Someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in, but don’t those rifles have a reputation for being ****? I know that’s the reputation the previous model had.

See my recent article on these rifles here:

John

The British Enfield L85 assault rifles