Questions about M36 Chiefs Special
- Thread starter Cinnabar Mtn.
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Looking at the side plate seam I don't think the nickel is original.
kobsw
Member
I've heard of a small run of target model 36's, but I don't have anymore details than that.
Is this your gun?
Regards,
Kobsw
OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
But if it was refinished, how does that explain the front and rear sights? Someone would have to do a lot of work to the barrel and from pictures I've seen of the fixed sights you just can't install targets on that easy, can you?
OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
Yes. Just bought it yesterday at my LGS
SAFireman
Member
Yes, S&W did make Chief Special Target, model #50.
They are somewhat rare. Yours appears to be refinished.
They are somewhat rare. Yours appears to be refinished.
OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
Is it mis stamped? It's marked as a model 36
From page 253 of the 4th edition of the SCSW book, "The highest percentage of Chief Special targets are marked M-36 or M-36-1 or have no designation at all, leaving the remainder marked model 50s." Also..."Random limited production of about 2036". So, assuming that is what it is, rare gun, rarer still pinned.
edit: Link to completed auction where a blued one sold for >$2100 ANIB, and I was surprised it did not sell for more. Smith & Wesson Model 50 .38 Special 2'' Blue Target Sights NIB Scarce - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 909825766
edit: Link to completed auction where a blued one sold for >$2100 ANIB, and I was surprised it did not sell for more. Smith & Wesson Model 50 .38 Special 2'' Blue Target Sights NIB Scarce - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 909825766
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OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
Thank you for the info. I was stumped on what i found. It doesn't have any markings on the frame involving refinishing by S&W so i didn't think someone would go to the expense and trouble to have a gunsmith do it, but you never know. I'm glad i bought it. My LGS had it listed as a model 60. That's what i was originally looking for.
I have looking for some time for a 36 target but I have a model 50 NIB. Your hgun has been refinished as noted by the nickel rear sight.
I think guns that left the factory with a nickel finish had a blue extractor star, and I know that Nickel Model 19s had a blued rear adjustable sight.
A silver reflective rear sight is not ideal. The early Model 66 and Model 67 had natural stainless sights and switched to blued after a couple years (according to posts in this forum, still stainless, but blued stainless). Those are the only models I know of that had silver color adjustable sights from the factory.
A Model 60 with adjustable sights does exist, called the Ashland model, from the name of "Ashland Shooter Supply". The adjustable sight and leaf assembly on that model is also blued. You can easily see that sighting along a matte dark surface in bright light is easier than a shiny, or even matte silver surface.
A silver reflective rear sight is not ideal. The early Model 66 and Model 67 had natural stainless sights and switched to blued after a couple years (according to posts in this forum, still stainless, but blued stainless). Those are the only models I know of that had silver color adjustable sights from the factory.
A Model 60 with adjustable sights does exist, called the Ashland model, from the name of "Ashland Shooter Supply". The adjustable sight and leaf assembly on that model is also blued. You can easily see that sighting along a matte dark surface in bright light is easier than a shiny, or even matte silver surface.
OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
So if it was an original finish it would be a 36 with target sights rear and front? I guess im confused about the front sight because doesn't the barrel have to be removed and refitted? Just saying because the 36 had fixed rear and low profile front. I am not trying to argue or get pissed over this. I don't care if it was refinished or not I really like the gun no matter what. My curiosity has got me on how this is. For what its worth the gun store i purchased it from is in Ennis, Montana and they got it from a local family that sold a collection of older firearms. I bought 3 others from them. A 34-1, Colt lawman .357 mkIII nickel finish and a Winchester model 94 made in 1922 with the saddle ring.
They do show up on gunbroker now and then. I saw one with a 3" barrel about a year ago, with a buy-it-now option enabled... did not last long, lol.
It's a good thing that gun collectors are not like those fanatical coin collectors who have to have every single year and mint mark of every... oh, wait... never mind (sigh).
OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
I agree that a reflective rear sight is not practical at all. I definitely see everyone's points on this this revolver. Thank you. That's why I enjoy sites like this. A lot of thinking in other areas. I just think it's unique and plan on keeping it since I paid very little, and it is very tight with very little wear for a 1960s era handgun.
Not refitted, it comes with the taller, triangular, front sight from the beginning. Most likely your gun came as a blued Chiefs Special Target, in the Model 36 series, and with blued rear sights.
Then someone had it nickel plated, not in the factory. For some reason, they chose to plate the rear sight, instead of removing the rear sight and leaving it blue. In this scenario, the barrel with the front sight were never refitted, just plated along with the frame.
Is the extractor star blue, or is it silver?
OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
It's silver. Yes, I see what you are saying and it all makes sense. Someone definitely wanted it looking different didn't they? I wish i knew more about it's history. In my area i might have known who did the work on it.
I have the 3" with full barrel lug, but want the 36 ND 2". BTW I'm working on my proof seated Liberty dimes. Only have 12 years right now.
It looks like you found a group of very cool guns at one shop... Some of us have to visit several shops or shows to find one. I call that a win! That includes a one-of about 2000 Chief Special Targets.When you consider that those are divided among two barrel lengths, and between round and square butt versions, AND between pinned and not pinned... I would say more than a simple win.
Obviously, you guys need a new challenge. Perhaps we should start matching years with coins... J-frame with a dime, K-frame with a quarter, N-frame with a Half Dollar. Premium for 1st and matching year... (extra credit for a complete mint set)
hyena
Member
About three years ago, I had lunch with an old school buddy and best friend I hadn't seen in several years. He was wearing one of those chief's target models on his ankle as a BUG. First time I had ever seen a S&W snob nose with target sights. I really liked it, and would buy one if I ever see one for sale.
OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
Thank you!! I feel extremely lucky to find what i did. A great Saturday in your favorite gun store is one of the best days a person can have. And an excuse to take a nice early winter drive!!
Your Chiefs Special Target serial number correlates to a "run" of 1,006 CST's that shipped in 1966. I've never seen one done in nickel before.
Curiosity question: does the serial number stamped inside the right grip match the s/n on the butt?
Curiosity question: does the serial number stamped inside the right grip match the s/n on the butt?
CST
The Chief's Special Targets were produced in limited quantity with different blocks of serial numbers from 1955-1977. There was a total of 2517 pre mod 36, mod 36, & mod 50 during this period! The largest quantity was the mod 50 with 1132 produced from 1973-1977. In 1962 S&W assigned the mod 50 to the CSTs but never produced any guns until 1973. The smallest quantity of any of the variations is the 36-1(3" Heavy barrel) was 213. The front sight is made with the barrel, not pinned on, in the 2" version! The CSTs were produced after 1977 but in different configurations! The mod 36-6 was the last blued CST made and then we have many variations of the mod 60 with target sights! OP, as stated above your gun was produced in the block of #391773-392778 in 1966 with a quantity of 1006 guns made.
jcelect
The Chief's Special Targets were produced in limited quantity with different blocks of serial numbers from 1955-1977. There was a total of 2517 pre mod 36, mod 36, & mod 50 during this period! The largest quantity was the mod 50 with 1132 produced from 1973-1977. In 1962 S&W assigned the mod 50 to the CSTs but never produced any guns until 1973. The smallest quantity of any of the variations is the 36-1(3" Heavy barrel) was 213. The front sight is made with the barrel, not pinned on, in the 2" version! The CSTs were produced after 1977 but in different configurations! The mod 36-6 was the last blued CST made and then we have many variations of the mod 60 with target sights! OP, as stated above your gun was produced in the block of #391773-392778 in 1966 with a quantity of 1006 guns made.
jcelect
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There are only three Mod 36 CSTs made with nickel plating; blued rear sights and 3" barrels only that are known from ~ 1976.
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Any good machinist can cut a groove in the top strap for the sight. A replacement barrel with the taller sight was easily obtained years ago (not so much in the last 5 or so) and the barrels swapped.
Another couple of points: the rear sight appears to be nickel - not a factory option ever; the rollmark on the barrel looks like it has dished letters - a characteristic of over-polishing; and there's no "N" on the left side of the grip frame that I can see.
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• 568 made in 1973-1975, Mod 50, # 930J45 – 936J19, 2" Sq Butt, standard thumbpiece. 3 known in nickel that lettered as 36-1, SCSW 3rd, p. 217, which appear to be left over from this Mod 50 production based on serial #s* (shown below).
*Although Jim Fisher has a 36-1, 3" HB, with a shorter front sight ramp base, Nickel RB serial #J455856, 1976 production (213 in 1975 (only 202 sold), Model 36-1 (-1 due to HB), # range 2J3134 – 2J3347 (actually 214 S/Ns), with a front sight base and pinned 3" HB (w/o barrel shroud), and Sq Butt. Appear to be the only Targets with ramp base front sight prior to the Mod 36-6s with full shroud. Special feature code on box label: G347), this nickel version exists, code H13, which appears to be a 4th one left over from 1973 Mod 50 production (3 known in SCSW, 3rd ed., p. 217) shown below and here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-special-target-2-213-made.html#post136963091
Here is a picture of the box. My guess is this Nickel Chiefs was made on special order because it is a different serial number. It is the only one I have seen in Nickel and round Butt.
*Although Jim Fisher has a 36-1, 3" HB, with a shorter front sight ramp base, Nickel RB serial #J455856, 1976 production (213 in 1975 (only 202 sold), Model 36-1 (-1 due to HB), # range 2J3134 – 2J3347 (actually 214 S/Ns), with a front sight base and pinned 3" HB (w/o barrel shroud), and Sq Butt. Appear to be the only Targets with ramp base front sight prior to the Mod 36-6s with full shroud. Special feature code on box label: G347), this nickel version exists, code H13, which appears to be a 4th one left over from 1973 Mod 50 production (3 known in SCSW, 3rd ed., p. 217) shown below and here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-special-target-2-213-made.html#post136963091
Here is a picture of the box. My guess is this Nickel Chiefs was made on special order because it is a different serial number. It is the only one I have seen in Nickel and round Butt.
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OP
Cinnabar Mtn.
Member
No, the two numbers do not match. It definitely seems likely someone had it refinished. And not by S&W .
• One of 2000 in 1989, Mod 36-6, Special edition, 3" full lug and Rd Butt, front sight ramp base, .340 combat trigger, standard hammer, black bead blasted, un-cataloged. Letter from Roy:
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