Questions on rework marks for the experts

[LadyFed]

In reading through the highly informational and entertaining as well thread started by Dave aka Merlindrb showing pictures of his 3 beautiful nickel pre-WWII S&W .357 Magnums, several of the comments by responding posters got me to wondering about by own non-registered FBI gun that I posted about a couple of weeks agao. Namely, the rework stampings and their significance on these particular revolvers. Mine has a star on the butt, apparently stamped through the blue so I don't think the gun has been refinished, and the date stamp 10.44 on the frame. The other S&W collector in the house explained to me what this might all represent, but he did say that the significance of the stamps are much less on my pre-war gun than one of his new revolvers, at least for collectibilty. But, as I said in the other post, that's no big concern to me. I want to keep this gun as original as I can, but I also want it functional and nice to look at. So, I'm thinking of having it fixed up mechanically and maybe the stocks re-checkered. I'll leave the finish alone as it's in pretty nice shape considering it's almost 70 now. I think the stocks I bought with Chuck's money

from Lee J. look pretty nice and considering both stocks and gun date from 1940 and the close connection between the USMC and the FBI, they are a good fit together.
Regards
Eliza

 

[LadyFed]

In reading through the highly informational and entertaining as well thread started by Dave aka Merlindrb showing pictures of his 3 beautiful nickel pre-WWII S&W .357 Magnums, several of the comments by responding posters got me to wondering about by own non-registered FBI gun that I posted about a couple of weeks agao. Namely, the rework stampings and their significance on these particular revolvers. Mine has a star on the butt, apparently stamped through the blue so I don't think the gun has been refinished, and the date stamp 10.44 on the frame. The other S&W collector in the house explained to me what this might all represent, but he did say that the significance of the stamps are much less on my pre-war gun than one of his new revolvers, at least for collectibilty. But, as I said in the other post, that's no big concern to me. I want to keep this gun as original as I can, but I also want it functional and nice to look at. So, I'm thinking of having it fixed up mechanically and maybe the stocks re-checkered. I'll leave the finish alone as it's in pretty nice shape considering it's almost 70 now. I think the stocks I bought with Chuck's money

from Lee J. look pretty nice and considering both stocks and gun date from 1940 and the close connection between the USMC and the FBI, they are a good fit together.
Regards
Eliza

 

[Doc44]

If not refinished, the revolver was returned for some repair or modification in October 1944.

Do you have a factory letter on the revolver yet?

Bill

 

[mikepriwer]

Eliza

The stocks are, of course, not original to the gun. I don't understand their
connection to the gun, so if you want it as near original as you can get it, you
should go with whatever type of stock it was shipped with. If you have the original
stocks, and they need recheckereing, then I'd get them recheckered.

As to the service department markings, I'm not sure what your question is. Clearly
the gun went back to the factory for something. The problem we get into here is
that the service department was a group of individuals, not a big machine. They
had some rules that they were suppossed to follow, but who's to know if they always
followed them 100% of the time? For example, how do you know, with certainty, that
the gun was not refinished ? Suppose it was refinished on that date, and then someone
realized that they forgot to stamp the star. So wham - they stamp the star right
through the refinish. Maybe it was Charlie Call, who had been with the factory
since 1882 ; he was still there in 1944, some 62 years later. Maybe he had a senior
moment, and that is how the gun got stamped, after it was refinished. In 1916 he was
foreman of the flat polishing and repair department. I don't know what he was doing in
1944, but he retired in 1946.

We can't know if this is what happened, just like we can't know if the finish is
really original.

As to getting the gun mechanically correct - of course, get it fixed up. That is
a win-win decision.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[LadyFed]

Bill, no, no letter yet but I have a preview of what it will say and know it letters to the FBI.

Mike, the gun doesn't look refinished but, like you and many others have stated, that doesn't mean much. I suppose the point is for me, that it doesn't really matter if it was refinsihed or not. Chuck told me that the pre-war .357s have retained their value most generally, refinsihed or not, particularly those guns that were sent back to the factory for their re-do. My gun, according to a seasoned gunsmith who states, "those dimples are caused from "extreme" double action dry firing and are usually a sign of a timing problem. Most likely the cylinder stop is not coming fully upward as the trigger is pulled to the point of releasing the hammer." I had to cut/paste his reply as it still only makes some sense to me. What I do understand though is that it needs repaired to be functional. Cosmetically, I think I can live with it. But, thinking like a woman, forgive me, I do know there is a certain attraction to geting things redone when the ravages of time start to take their toll

I do have the original stocks and thought the period stocks will work out on this gun while the others are being redone.
Eliza

 

[mikepriwer]

Eliza

The gun looks fine, so I see no reason whatsoever to think about refnishing.
As to functional/mechanical repairs, think about it this way: the original
owner would surely have sent it back for any necessary repairs, so there is
no problem with any subsequent owner doing the same thing. Repairs don't
stop just because the original owner no longer has possession of it.

Chuck is right about these guns retaining their value, despite return trips
to the factory. Almost all of Ed McGivern's gun went back at least once,
and no one cares at all. In that era, depending on what was needed, the
factory may well have refinished the gun. For example, if something
bad had happed to the cylinder, they may well have just
replaced it, serial numbered it to the gun, and possibly refinished the
whole thing so that it looked right.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[rburg]

Just an interesting idea here. During the war (and 1944 was the thick of it), you had to really have some pull to get a gun thru a factory that was going full blast on wartime production.

In the letters Roy always tells us that repair information is filed by the name of the person that sent the gun in for the work. On the premise that his letter will tell you the name of the agent who owned it, it might be interesting to see if he'll take the time to look that up.

As you know, FBI guns get some carry time. Its a wonder more of them didn't get really abused. You probably have access to the site where retired agents meet and tell war stories. When you get the guys name, it might be an interesting exercise to research him to see what important cases he worked.

 

[LadyFed]

Mike, Dick, thank you gentlemen for your reasoned comments. Dick, I'll ask Mr. Jinks to check the repair work invoices to see if there is any additional information as to the agent/person sending the gun for repair in October, 1944, when, as you said, was the busiest time for S&W and most other factories in this country supporting the war effort.
Thanks for this tip.
Eliza

 

[Onomea]

For the mechanical repairs you have in mind, Dave Chicoine would be a good choice. Gene Williams would also be good, although he is not working on revos much these days, from what I hear.

 

[merlindrb]

Steve

I agree that Roy made that point. However, a lot of people were away playing with bigger toys during that period. I don't believe there was much public activity in the shooting sports during the 1941-45 period. Therefore I'm guessing that most of the factory re-work undertaken would have been for people actively engaged in "government activities" or possibly LEO's needing weapons repaired. It would be interesting to check the factory repair records and get a feel for it.

Eliza - I've got 2 FBI magnums that went back to the factory for some kind of work during the war years. Perhaps it's just co-incidence...?

Regardless, nice gun. Re the grips, our own DWFAN on this forum or Keith Brown can re-cut them for you and make them look like new. I'm sure Chuck knows how to contact them. If not get him to drop me a line and I'll forward the info.

 

[mikepriwer]

There were a few revolvers made for civilians during WW2. I own one - the 2" target
Victory shipped to McGivern in early 1945. Spike Jones got a .22 in about 1943 - I'm
having trouble finding the letter ( the whereabouts of this zero gun are unknown).

All told, there were, maybe a dozen or so, made up in the service department
for various friends of the factory, etc.

Later, Mike Priwer