R134a Replacement Refrigerant

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sophie said:
Has Washington state outlawed R134A Freon. Why would they do that? Doesn’t make any sense. What do they think is a replacement for the R134A Freon?
Click to expand...

The substitute is Dichlorodifluoromethane, (F12),

I had to learn how to spell that when I went to Tech school,,
I also had to learn monochlorodifluoromethane,, (that is F22)
I have a 30 pound unopened tank of F12 in the garage,,

The problem is that it is more rare than small pistol primers were a year ago!!
 
This is the Washington banned refrigerant list. Apparently, there is a product called ZeroR which is an accepted substitute for R-134a in auto AC applications. I know nothing about ZeroR, except it is stated to be nothing more than propane. WAC 173-443-040:
 
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I must be sittin' on a small fortune. Down my cellar I have about 40# each of virgin R12, R22, and a pretty full bottle of 134A. I only had the 134A to have something to make a couple bucks on someone's car if needed. I'm retired and got rid of all my gauges, etc., as far as anyone knows. I don't know of any refrigeration equipment, commercial, that I've ever worked on that used 134A. I could probably get rid of it all for $20/lb. if I needed to get rid of it quick. The 12 & 22 is worth more, depending on how bad someone needed it. None of the vendors around here have 22 on their shelves, and R12 is gone (but there's still a lot of old equipment that uses them.) The consumers pay.
I never priced that 1234YF, both my cars have it. $55/lb. is ridiculous!
 
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jeffrefrig said:
I must be sittin' on a small fortune. Down my cellar I have about 40# each of virgin R12, R22, and a pretty full bottle of 134A. I only had the 134A to have something to make a couple bucks on someone's car if needed. I'm retired and got rid of all my gauges, etc., as far as anyone knows. I don't know of any refrigeration equipment, commercial, that I've ever worked on that used 134A. I could probably get rid of it all for $20/lb. if I needed to get rid of it quick. The 12 & 22 is worth more, depending on how bad someone needed it. None of the vendors around here have 22 on their shelves, and R12 is gone (but there's still a lot of old equipment that uses them.) The consumers pay.
I never priced that 1234YF, both my cars have it. $55/lb. is ridiculous!
Click to expand...

I remember R12 for sale for $1/lb.
 
ACORN said:
I remember R12 for sale for $1/lb.
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I started in the summer of 1974, R-12 & R-22 were about 22 cents a pound in 30# cans. Remember R-11 & R-21 for moisture removal, and Red Check and Blue Check for leak detection? Then just vent into the wind!

That was NOTHING! A family friend was a USAF refrigeration tech in the guard, at his air base a building full of bombs got too hot to safely enter, so the hosed them down with a tanker truck of R-12! circa 1971

Ivan
 
A friend of mine and I got hold of a bad tank of R12. We shot it with .22s.
We thought it would explode. All it did was run out like water and boil off.
 
Whatever happened to Ozone Depletion Potential (ODP)
numbers?

All I see now are Global Warming Potential (GWP) Numbers.
I'm a firm believer in ODP. I am not convinced that GWP
is a valid science yet.
 
I feel for the rookie/apprentice trying to explain the whole system needs replaced because they outlawed the “Freezon” that is in his A/C isn’t made anymore. “I’m going back to McDonalds.”
Edit to add: we used to blow out condensers with R22. I believe R12 was 60 cents a lb. Wholesale when I started in the field. There was a drop-in replacement for it, I think it was called Hot Shot in a blue cylinder. There was also Hot shot in a green jug for 22. AFAIK it’s no longer made. It was too cheap to repair systems I guess. Just evacuate and recharge. It’s all about the money!
 
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jeffrefrig said:
I must be sittin' on a small fortune. Down my cellar I have about 40# each of virgin R12, R22, and a pretty full bottle of 134A. I only had the 134A to have something to make a couple bucks on someone's car if needed. I'm retired and got rid of all my gauges, etc., as far as anyone knows. I don't know of any refrigeration equipment, commercial, that I've ever worked on that used 134A. I could probably get rid of it all for $20/lb. if I needed to get rid of it quick. The 12 & 22 is worth more, depending on how bad someone needed it. None of the vendors around here have 22 on their shelves, and R12 is gone (but there's still a lot of old equipment that uses them.) The consumers pay.
I never priced that 1234YF, both my cars have it. $55/lb. is ridiculous!
Click to expand...

While yer bragging ya got any chlordane or some DDT....asking for a friend
 
Ivan the Butcher said:
I started in the summer of 1974, R-12 & R-22 were about 22 cents a pound in 30# cans. Remember R-11 & R-21 for moisture removal, and Red Check and Blue Check for leak detection? Then just vent into the wind!

That was NOTHING! A family friend was a USAF refrigeration tech in the guard, at his air base a building full of bombs got too hot to safely enter, so the hosed them down with a tanker truck of -12! circa 1971

Ivan
Click to expand...

We used to have a fuel quantity indicating problem on the B-52s and used R-12 to spray the connectors to simulate high altitude temperatures. Sprayed tons of the stuff. A couple of ozone holes have my name on them.

My AC tech told me the new refrigerant has butane in it. That's going to be a real blast when it starts leaking out.
 
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A friend from Church was a VP with Farmers Insurance in Columbus. He was in charge of all their support systems for the region, things like fleet and building maintenance. In about 2005 he was talking about how much a replacement system was going to cost (a few hundred thousand dollars), and then what was he supposed to do with the 54,000 pounds of R-12 that he had accumulated to keep things running into the future? I said get bid on the replacement system that includes the spare freon. Farmers got a new system and a check for $100,000! My friend got a nice bonus and took us out to dinner.

I have about 10 pounds of R-22 left for my home system (and my tools, gauges, and recovery system) for when This compressor goes out. So far I've only had to put a capacitor in the 20 year old unit, it has to be one of Bryant's last R-22 units. Every year I see half a dozen condos in the complex getting new systems!

Ivan
 
We got a new shipment of self-contained refrigerators maybe a couple years before I retired from Pgh Schools. I can't remember the name of the refrigerant but it had a warning sticker about the propane in it. It basically outlined the space required around the units so if it leaked out it wouldn't be an explosive issue. I think I would purge the system with dry nitrogen before I put a torch to it for repairs. I never attended any classes about procedures for working with the stuff since I knew my career was about over, and I had our buyer make sure we got a parts & labor warranty so I never had to work on them.
An old "ice boxer" told me that some of the early ultra-low temp systems they had to add propane, at "experimental" amounts, to keep the oil return running free.
It was a very interesting occupation for sure! And I don't miss 2 AM callouts one bit, nor do I miss waking up for work!
 
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