Rail riser for an M&P15 OR?

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jasona

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So I took my new OR out to the range the other day with a friend (he's ex Army) to run some rounds through. The rifle as bought came with an EOTech 512 red-dot sight. He'd never shot an AR with a red dot before.

We both had a blast shooting, but he made a suggestion that's gotten me thinking.

I'm a tall-ish guy, with long arms. Even with the stock fully extended, it feels a bit too "short" to me. He noticed that to look through the sight square, I had to just about crank my head over past my shoulder, and suggested a riser for the sight.

So, my question: Has anyone mounted a similar sight on a riser? Looking on Cheaper Than Dirt at risers, it looks like they just attach similar to a scope, and can be bought in differing heights.

Finally, I'd also like to add at some point something such as the EOTech G33 magnifier, which it looks like I'd need to move the G512 further towards the muzzle to fit (the 512 covers the entire existing rail.) Being a rifle newbie, will this adversely affect using the sight? I'd presume I'd need to re-zero the sight after moving it...

Thanks!
JasonA
 
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JoseVazquez76 said:
Your friend was X Army and never shot a red dot ?
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I never shot a red dot while in the military... I'm betting there are more ex-Army folks that have never shot a red dot while in the military than there are that have. Red dots are fairly new to the scene for the average troop... After all, the Army has been around since 1775, so there are a lot of ex-Army guys whose service predates the use of the red dot. :D
 
Ya your right they were issued back in 2000. Sorry to hijack your thread. The OP mentioned something that the rifle felt to small you might want to look into getting a longer rail that will help you stretch out your arms the riser may help a little I would assume it might throw off your zero

And yes you would have to bring the sight forward to mount a magnifier. Oh ya you can even get a longer buffer tube say one from an M16 but your going to have to spend money to stretch out your AR-15. The most important thing is that you have to make that rifle work for you not you work for the rifle.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
 
jasona said:
I'm a tall-ish guy, with long arms. Even with the stock fully extended, it feels a bit too "short" to me. He noticed that to look through the sight square, I had to just about crank my head over past my shoulder, and suggested a riser for the sight.
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The Eotech 512 is built to provide absolute co-witness to your front sights. To me, it sounds like you are mounting the rifle improperly. My buddy, who is 6'3" with arms from a gorilla doesn't keep the stock fully extended.

When you say that you have to "crank my head over past my shoulder", that sounds like a side to side issue, not a height issue... it makes me wonder about your eye dominance.
 
I'M wondering if you can somehow take a pic you getting down on your weapon i'm also wondering what you mean by cranking your head past your shoulder to me it sounds like what that girl on that movie the exorcist when she cranked her head 360 degrees.
 
Well, taking these from the top:
My buddy was Army in the very early 90s, and wasn't front-line anyways. So, I would guess that pre-dates red dots.

Now, this is a bone-stock (for now) OR, so there is *no* front sight on the rifle. It's got the gas block with rail, but no sight on it. So the only sight is the red dot.

As for eye dominance, from what I've noticed pistol shooting (closing one eye to sight,) I think I might be left-eye dominant (but right-hand dominant...) If I do a "trick" I read about to check eye dominance, where you point at something far away, then close each eye to see which has your finger over the object, it's left eye.

I may be exaggerating how much I need to turn my head, and I don't currently have the rifle handy to get some pics.

I do, when sighting, try to keep both eyes open, focusing through the red dot on the target, and I do manage to hit (mostly) where I'm aiming. Some of the mostly can be chalked up to this being my first rifle, some likely to trigger discipline.

Thanks!
 
I thought this might be the case, right handed but left eye dominant. You should try mounting the rifle from the left shoulder. It will feel strange at first, but the sight alignment will be more natural, and your shooting should improve. Your shooting position should also be more comfortable.

It doesn't sound like a riser will help this issue.
 
Another way to test eye dominance is to extend your arms with your hands overlapping, creating a small hole with the web of your thumbs and forefingers. While looking at a distant object through this hole, bring your hands back towards your face while focusing on the object. You should find that the hole will be aligned with the dominant eye.
 
rjbFL said:
cyphertext thanks, it works, very cleaver, good to know.
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If you try it with youth, have them extend their arms down low in front, then have them bring their hands up and look at you through the hole. You will see which eye their hand lines up with. If you have them bring their hands back, many times they will try to force their hand to the eye that they "think" should be dominant.
 
cyphertext said:
Another way to test eye dominance is to extend your arms with your hands overlapping, creating a small hole with the web of your thumbs and forefingers. While looking at a distant object through this hole, bring your hands back towards your face while focusing on the object. You should find that the hole will be aligned with the dominant eye.
Click to expand...

Yup, left-eye dominant with this method, too...

Going to be really odd holding the grip with my right hand, fore stock with my left, and bringing the rifle to my left shoulder...
:D
 
jasona said:
Yup, left-eye dominant with this method, too...

Going to be really odd holding the grip with my right hand, fore stock with my left, and bringing the rifle to my left shoulder...
:D
Click to expand...

ummm, no... :D Rifle at left shoulder, holding grip with left hand, fore end supported with your right hand, and brass ejecting in front of your face. ;)
 
Hmmm...

Maybe I'll try to change my dominant eye...
Anyone got a fork? ;)
 
With a red dot, if you can keep yourself from craning your neck over the stock to look through the sight with your left eye, you might be ok. Keep focused on the target downrange with both eyes open. The mind should super impose the two images, giving you a sight picture that has the dot hovering over the target. But you will have to fight to keep your head in place to look through the sight with the right eye, and this all could go out the window when you add magnification.

Another option is to try to retrain your eyes. Take a piece of scotch tape and place it on the left eye lens of your shooting glasses, where you will be looking through it. It is opaque so that you can see through it, but blurs enough to force your mind to focus with the other eye. Not sure how long this method takes though.

Try shooting left handed... run a couple hundred rounds through the rifle shooting left handed while focusing on the fundamentals. I think this is the method that will give you the best results.
 
Unless you are blind in the right eye what difference does it make with a red dot and both eyes open?
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
Unless you are blind in the right eye what difference does it make with a red dot and both eyes open?
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It shouldn't.... as long as he doesn't strain his neck to look through the site with the dominant eye, creating poor positioning behind the rifle. It is quite possible that he has been closing the right eye as well.
 
cyphertext said:
It shouldn't.... as long as he doesn't strain his neck to look through the site with the dominant eye, creating poor positioning behind the rifle. It is quite possible that he has been closing the right eye as well.
Click to expand...

Holding the rifle right handed and shooting with the right eye closed? He's either not using the optic and just throwing lead down range or should join a circus. I don't even think its possible. Try it.
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
Holding the rifle right handed and shooting with the right eye closed? He's either not using the optic and just throwing lead down range or should join a circus. I don't even think its possible. Try it.
Click to expand...

It's possible, I've seen Boy Scouts do it due to the cross dominance of their eyes and hands. Instead of keeping their head erect, they look like they are almost laying down on the stock. Then they will say that they can't get low enough to use the sights, much like Jasona saying that he needs a riser for the Eotech 512. He doesn't have iron sights on the gun, so it isn't an absolute co-witness vs. lower third that he is trying to solve for.
 
cyphertext said:
It's possible, I've seen Boy Scouts do it due to the cross dominance of their eyes and hands. Instead of keeping their head erect, they look like they are almost laying down on the stock. Then they will say that they can't get low enough to use the sights, much like Jasona saying that he needs a riser for the Eotech 512. He doesn't have iron sights on the gun, so it isn't an absolute co-witness vs. lower third that he is trying to solve for.
Click to expand...

Well yes if you rise an optic high enough anything is possible, but otherwise it's ridiculous. In any event, if an adult is thinking this is the way to shoot an AR they do not belong on a range without further instruction, and should not be alone on the range without an instructor or experienced shooter with them. Such behavior is demonstration of zero knowledge.
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
Well yes if you rise an optic high enough anything is possible, but otherwise it's ridiculous. In any event, if an adult is thinking this is the way to shoot an AR they do not belong on a range without further instruction, and should not be alone on the range without an instructor or experienced shooter with them. Such behavior is demonstration of zero knowledge.
Click to expand...

Jasona may not be going to the extreme that I have seen with some Boy Scouts, but he did say he is craning his neck over to look through the sight, and thought he needed a riser. That is why I immediately thought it was an eye dominance issue.

Many folks don't even realize that they are doing this. Many have not had real shooting instruction, they shoot with one eye closed normally, and developed this habit from when they were running the neighborhood with a Daisy Red Ryder.
 
cyphertext said:
Many folks don't even realize that they are doing this. Many have not had real shooting instruction, they shoot with one eye closed normally, and developed this habit from when they were running the neighborhood with a Daisy Red Ryder.
Click to expand...

Many folks don't know they are doing this? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Go ahead, pick up your AR and give it a try. Hold the rifle right handed then close your right eye and try to look through your optic or sights with the left eye. Anyone who would not immediately realize that there must be something drastically wrong with what they are trying to do... I mean.... c'mon...
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
Many folks don't know they are doing this? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Go ahead, pick up your AR and give it a try. Hold the rifle right handed then close your right eye and try to look through your optic or sights with the left eye. Anyone who would not immediately realize that there must be something drastically wrong with what they are trying to do... I mean.... c'mon...
Click to expand...

I know, it sounds crazy, but if they haven't shot before, or have not been taught how to mount the rifle properly, they don't know. They are just trying to position the rifle where they can look through the sight with the dominant eye. You will notice it when you see it on the range... head far back on the stock, with head tilted instead of straight.

It's hard to explain... they just try to roll or push their head over to line up the sight with the dominant eye.
 
Well, I didn't think I'd start such an interesting discussion, so I'm going to chime back in again...

I'm not trying to sight with my left eye, I am looking through the red dot with my right eye. I do (initially) close my *left* eye to get lined up with the red dot with my right, but then re-open the left and focus *both* eyes down range on the target.

About the only way I could picture sighting with my left eye (other than holding the rifle leftie) would be turning my head like I'm looking over my right shoulder, and looking as far left as possible with my eyes...
Which would be *really* uncomfortable for my eyes...
 
Jasona, can you post a pic of how you are mounting the rifle? Your friend noted that you are craning your neck, and that led us to the eye dominance, which you confirmed that you are left eye dominant, but right handed.

When you said that you crank your head over past your shoulder to be square with the sight, this described one of our scouts perfectly. Once we confirmed his eye dominance and moved the rifle to the other shoulder, his shooting improved almost immediately. He went from hitting the paper to at least getting some grouping.

After you line up with your left eye closed, when you open your eye, are you shifting anything?
 
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