Range Day with your early N frames

[Kurusu]

I have a Webley 0.455 Commercial made just before WWII (the dealer who sold it to me did not know what he had) and a couple of cut 0.455s one Webley Mk VI and one Enfield MK VI (yes they do exist). Plus a Mk II S&W still in 0.455. I was lucky enough to obtain the spacers that allow 0.455 Webley cartridges to run in cut MKVi's Using the 0.265 grain hollow base bullets from Jet Bullets in Canada, they still will deliver 2-2.5" accuracy at 25 metres in single action. Will I dispose of them...NO. Dave_n

How about some pictures?

You know we love pictures. Right?

And to be consistent.

My 1917.

The modified BSR. It's out of the scope of this thread, but got mentioned.

The 25-2 currently in "jail" waiting for it's ID card.

And since we are at it. I too have a Webley Mk VI. And it's a sweet shooter. It has only been fired with commercial .455 from Fiocchi so far, and It will do even better with reloads

 

[StrawHat]

How do you feel about the difference between the 1917 and the 25-2... i.e: weight, balance, sights, target trigger vs service trigger?

Jim

All of my target sighted ACP revolvers are also short action so it is not apples to apples. As much as I like my long action revolvers, there is a reason the short action was developed. I do have some fixed sighted ACPs new and old. The newer ones are balanced about the same but the short action is the winner in the accuracy department. The specific revolvers tested are a Model 1917, a Model 1950 Military, a couple of 1917 Commercial Models and a Model 22-4 built to emulate the 1917 Commercial. The short action beat the long action and the 22-4 beats them all.

In the following photo all were tested except the Model 25-2. In a test including the 25-2, the weight soaked up recoil but got heavy toward the end of the round.

Kevin

 

[6string]

Micro Sight Transitional HD

Well, I took my Micro sighted Transitional Heavy Duty out for a range date on Sunday.
It's outside of my own OP, but it is a long action pre-war style.
The Micro sights are really nice. The click adjustments are very crisp, much like a BOMAR sight. As many already know, Micro was formed after WWII by former King's Gunsight employees.
They did similar work, such as this conversion.
It may be hard to tell, but the rear sight is very nicely inlet into the top strap.

 

[lestert357]

43 posts and not one RM or NRM. Well I must rectify that! These matched 4.5” RM’s travel up to the West Virginia cabin several times a year for light workouts...most recently with Gold Dot 38 Special 125 GR GDHP which was recently on sale for half price at Target Sports USA.

If interested, you can read more about this matched pair at Leo H. Rice’s 1st Year 4.5” Consecutive Reg# RM Matched Pair

 

[6string]

43 posts and not one RM or NRM. Well I must rectify that! These matched 4.5” RM’s travel up to the West Virginia cabin several times a year for light workouts...most recently with Gold Dot 38 Special 125 GR GDHP which was recently on sale for half price at Target Sports USA.
]

Fantastic!

 

[Kurusu]

43 posts and not one RM or NRM. Well I must rectify that! These matched 4.5” RM’s travel up to the West Virginia cabin several times a year for light workouts...most recently with Gold Dot 38 Special 125 GR GDHP which was recently on sale for half price at Target Sports USA.

For my part, I didn't post one because I have none.

Best I could manage was a 27-2. And consider myself lucky to be able to get one.

 

[Kurusu]

The old boys I shoot with claim the only way you can get a full load of black powder in the case is to use the old balloon head cases. I don't see a problem using the balloon head case as long as your using black but have heard you can run into problems with smokeless, I guess if Elmer was still around he could testify as such. Those cases are pretty cool anyway. I shoot BPC in 45-70 and 45-90 and was wondering how they got 70 grns in the case, one of the old boys said that they were balloon head cases. Winchester cases are the thinnest, allowing the most powder but I still struggle to get 70 grns in. Swiss formula works a bit better, I am using that in the 45-90 and have plenty of room for more powder although am finding it unnecessary, 75 grns seems to give me excellent accuracy with room to spare, that is 1-1/2F.

Yep! best I can manage in .44-40 and .45 Colt is 35 grs(And there is already slight compression). But I use Swiss #1, it is a considerable bang (chronographed the .44-40 slightly over 1000 fps out of a 5 1/2 barrel with the 200 gr LFP bullet).

 

[Kinman]

Yep! best I can manage in .44-40 and .45 Colt is 35 grs(And there is already slight compression). But I use Swiss #1, it is a considerable bang (chronographed the .44-40 slightly over 1000 fps out of a 5 1/2 barrel with the 200 gr LFP bullet).

I use 3F Swiss which is much finer and allows a full case capacity in most revolver cartridges. It also provides a much cleaner fouling in cap and ball revolvers, 3F Olde Eyensford is a couple bucks a pound cheaper and does not provide the sharper bang that Swiss does. 1F Swiss is an excellent musket or shotgun powder but in my experienced much to course for light work below .54 caliber in rifles. I use 1-1/2 Swiss in my .45 muzzle loading target rifle, 45-70 and 45-90. I do know of a guy that puts 1/8" compression on Swiss and swears he has not issues, I haven't competed with him or seen him shoot for that matter. I like to install a .030 vegetable wad on top of my charge then with a wooden dowel use just enough pressure to completely seat the wad, adjusting the depth of the bullet so that it rests "comfortably" on the wad and no crimp, just neck tension.

 

[Kurusu]

I use 3F Swiss which is much finer and allows a full case capacity in most revolver cartridges. It also provides a much cleaner fouling in cap and ball revolvers, 3F Olde Eyensford is a couple bucks a pound cheaper and does not provide the sharper bang that Swiss does. 1F Swiss is an excellent musket or shotgun powder but in my experienced much to course for light work below .54 caliber in rifles. I use 1-1/2 Swiss in my .45 muzzle loading target rifle, 45-70 and 45-90. I do know of a guy that puts 1/8" compression on Swiss and swears he has not issues, I haven't competed with him or seen him shoot for that matter. I like to install a .030 vegetable wad on top of my charge then with a wooden dowel use just enough pressure to completely seat the wad, adjusting the depth of the bullet so that it rests "comfortably" on the wad and no crimp, just neck tension.

It's not 1F Swiss I use. Swiss # 1 is 4 F, I even prime the pan of my flintlock with it. And Swiss #2 is 3 F.

Edit. My competition load for 25 meters in the .44 Remington is just 13.5 grs of Swiss # 1

 

[Kinman]

Holy Cow...I only know of one other guy that used 4F in the main charge for his rifle. Later he said "That 4F is great, it even re-cocks my rifle for me." I've heard somebody say that it was used as a main charge for gallery loads but way to hot for my taste, a little bit goes a long way. I've tried Swiss Null-B priming powder and found it to be the cleanest but no worth the extra price. For all my flintlocks I use Goex 4F, a little dirtier but just as reliable. We've experimented with just about everything over the years and the one thing that rings true is that nothing is scared nor chiseled in stone.

 

[fleabus101]

Just love these Older N Frame threads and the effort sharing the pics is appreciated. I will be saving up for AWhile for a Triplelock down the
road one day.
Thanks sharing with all of us the beauties
in this thread..

 

[Kurusu]

Holy Cow...I only know of one other guy that used 4F in the main charge for his rifle. Later he said "That 4F is great, it even re-cocks my rifle for me." I've heard somebody say that it was used as a main charge for gallery loads but way to hot for my taste, a little bit goes a long way. I've tried Swiss Null-B priming powder and found it to be the cleanest but no worth the extra price. For all my flintlocks I use Goex 4F, a little dirtier but just as reliable. We've experimented with just about everything over the years and the one thing that rings true is that nothing is scared nor chiseled in stone.

I wouldn't use the # 1 in .45-70 either. For that I have used 3F. But I only loaded .45-70 with blackpowder to see how it was like. My .45-70 is a Winchester/Miroku 1886 Extra Light.

 

[6string]

The "Cap and Ball" guy on youtube recommends using a 22LR case to measure out a charge of Swiss #1 for use in the Pedersoli-Remington 1858 revolver.

 

[Kurusu]

The "Cap and Ball" guy on youtube recommends using a 22LR case to measure out a charge of Swiss #1 for use in the Pedersoli-Remington 1858 revolver.

That will be around 11 grs. In my opinion it's to slow for free hand shooting. But he was shooting benched if I remember. He is mostly a rifle shooter. In M.L.A.I.C. competition I mean.

Edit. He was present in some events I also went. But we never crossed paths, me being an handgun shooter.

 

[Kinman]

The load I worked up for my Ruger Old Armys (another disease) is 28grs of Old Eynesford 3F under 10grs of Cream O Wheat with a grease soaked felt wad and a .457 ball, I learned years ago that multiple discharges are not caused by flame getting past a seated ball, the result from something interfering with the seated cap and cylinder to frame space. I don't have to use a .457 and have got by with .451 and .454...I like to kid myself into the fact that a tighter ball produces a tighter group. I still like to grease the cylinders in order to keep the fouling softer, they clean up better. I now guys that throw their stainless Rugers in the dishwasher. I don't own a stainless handgun at the moment, I passed on a nice 624-3 the other day I could have picked up from the same guy that sold me my L.H. 24-3, too shiney for my taste.

 

[Kurusu]

1- 28 grs is a good field load. It is also accurate.

2 - A tight ball may not be more accurate per se. But one thing is for sure. A tight ball will not creep forward under recoil. That does happen and it can lead to enough delay in the ignition to ruin accuracy completely(that delay can be so slight you will barely notice it, but it will ruin your scores).

3 - keeping the soot soft with a good grease over the chambers not only allows for more shots fired before fouling gums things up, but also is a great plus in maitaining accuracy.

4 - greased wads I do not use. First they don't help accuracy much(at least not in my experience YMMV). And secondly. I compete with handguns at 25 meters. When I tried greased wads in training, I found out they could reach the target with enough force to get you in trouble when scoring your target.

Edit. Almost forgot. I use corn meal as a filler. It also helps keeping the barrel clean.

 

[stamper]

My main thought after seeing these posts is that I need to seriously consider branching out from vintage K-frames. Thanks for sharing.

 

[6string]

OK... so, we got some black powder talk worked into the conversation.
So, anybody shoot black powder loads out of your N frames? I'm sure a lot of 44 Special loads were fired with black powder, and those 1st and 2nd model 455s must have seen some (MKI loads?) not to mention cordite!

My brother had a 25-5 45 "Long" Colt. We found a full box of 1909 45 Colt ammo, the stuff with the wider rims for use in the Colt New Service. We shot a lot of it and, sure enough, it was loaded with a very stiff load of black powder! It shot great.
Very high quality powder....it cleaned up with no problems.

Jim

 

[Kurusu]

Not me. The only cartridge blackpowder I did was from:

My 3rd generation 7 1/5 SAA Colt in .45 Colt
An Uberti Schofield I used to have, also in .45Colt(I "cheated some" on that one)*.

A 5 1/5 Uberti SAA in .44WCF
An Uberti 1873 carbine in .44WCF

An Original Colt Lightning carbine and an Original 1873 Winchester carbine(both not mine but from a friend) in .44WCF.

A 4 3/4 Uberti SAA in .357 Magnum(I used .38 SPL cases and 17gr Swiss #1).

A Winchester 1886 Extra Light made by Miroku in .45-70.

* the "cheating" I have done with the Schofield was using .454 round balls over 28 grs of Swiss #1. The balls were seatead over the powder about level with the top of the cases. Then I completely sealed the cases with the same stuff I use on muzzle loading revolvers. It was very accurate, and I manage to shoot all day without the revolver binding because of fouling.

 

[bushmaster1313]