Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet

[schgsd]

The planets were in alignment. I had an easy day at work, no precip and temps in the mid thirties. I raced toward home after work, stopped at Wally World and found these. The 8 ring seems the same as the B-27, the inner bull half it's size.

Shot as challenged 4-6-6-4 at 3,5,7 and 10 yards. HARD to slow down! Haven't shot this year at all except for Valentines day when I took my wife to a new indoor range and that day was really all about her.

Steyr L9-A1 Tulammo BrassMaxx 115gr fmj.

Man it was good to get out and do this! Thanks Rastoff.

 

[LMWIS]

Haven't shot this year at all except for Valentines day when I took my wife to a new indoor range and that day was really all about her.

You got to go to the range on Valentine's Day and it was all about her?!

I envy you my friend.

 

[Harkrader]

Rastoff's Challenge, three different guns



Welll, I actually did not do as well as I was ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY CERTAIN I could easily do. It was a good exercise and learning experience.

I used:
1. a Beretta 92F Compact with Winchester LE +P+ ammo.
2. S&W M&P357 Sig with Speer Lawman Ammo.
and
4. S&W PC1911RB with Winchester 230-grain standard pressure ammo.

I decided to do it two-hand, then strong-hand only, followed by weak-hand only. The attached targets are marked.

Interesting, to me, the flyers, that is the ones furthest out or from the group, were fired from either the five or seven yard line. I tightened right up at the 10-yard line. Perhaps that's because I do most of my fixed target work at 10 meters and muscle memory helped. Some happened with each of the holds.

It was a 40-degree day with no sunshine and a modest breeze from behind. By the time I got to the PC1911RB my hands were quite cold, making me feel better about those groups.

I followed this with the CHL test, using only the Beretta and Winchester LE ammo. All went into a ragged 3/4" hole. I just forgot to take a picture . . .. Trust me.
NOOO! I actually strung out to the left for a total group size of about six inches. And I really did forget to take a picture. It was KOLD! I'm stickin' with that excuse.

 

[Rastoff]

Interesting, to me, the flyers, that is the ones furthest out or from the group, were fired from either the five or seven yard line. I tightened right up at the 10-yard line.

I had exactly the same issue and see the same from many shooters. It's a strange phenomena. I think it is a mentality vs distance. We see 7 yards as "not that far" and tend to not be as precise. Then 10 yards seems really far so, we take more time.

That's just a guess. Still, it's why the challenge has to be done at the different distances. By changing distances it adds a weird mental component.

Of course, being cold doesn't help the concentration any.

Nice groups by the way.

 

[schgsd]

You got to go to the range on Valentine's Day and it was all about her?!

I envy you my friend.

Any way you can get your wife to be interested and supportive is a good way. That why I let her do most of the shootin'.

Valentines day was a good day.

 

[6518John]

WE LOVE THIS THREAD!!!

My 10 year old son and I try this every time we head out to the ranch. Doug (Rastoff) has been coaching us both here and in emails and it is amazing the difference a bit of quality, professional help gives you.

My son shot this today under the challenge rules with full-bore .357 magnum, 158 grain PMC ammo. I was STUNNED. First 10,000 Highway Patrolman made 50 years before he was born! He has done so well with it, it reminds me of what I think is a Thunder Ranch saying--beware the man with one old gun! He probably knows how to use it.

But Doug's shooting tips have built his confidence so much he shot 10 or 12 magazines through my Springfield 1911 today too. He normally won't touch--probably sounds funny to most but a 1911 is a big switch to one use to his sweet old Smith's--17, 28, 29 (with .44 Special). Moving slide, safeties, flying empties, etc. But he had a blast with with the big .45 too.

Doug has done an invaluable service to my boy and me, and I think to us all who have done the challenge. Frankly, I have no worry that my son could defend himself if he had to with his 28.

 

[snowman]

Alright; I finally was able to get to the range and enter the contest. I had an awful time figuring out how to get the pictures to Photobucket, then to the forum, but it appears that I finally was able to get it accomplished.

The gun is one of my house guns -a 686-6. Load is .357 125gr JHPs over 16gr of VV N110(I don't think load info was required, but there it is anyway.)

The first two pictures show that the dimensions of the oval centers are the same as a B27; 2" x 3". In the other pictures I attempted to provide measurements for the group. However I apparently wasn't standing directly above the target as I took them. Using my dial caliper the measurement in the third picture is approximately 1.427", and the one in the fourth picture is appromimately 1.6". I'll let Rastoff use his measuring software to determine things more precisely.

The black marks in the center of the oval are the remains of an upside down "T" which I drew with a felt-tip marker; I commonly use this marking to help align the sights.

Regards,
Andy

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[Rastoff]

I have lots more including with a snub nose same as this at 25 to 100 yards double action including with moon clip combat reloads.

Very Respectfully,

Larry Wood

What do "combat reloads" (whatever that is) have to do with accuracy?

Sub 3" 8 shot groups at 100 yards with a 2" or shorter barreled gun? You are the best shot I've ever heard of. Funny that you haven't posted a target that meets the conditions of the challenge. At the distances listed in the OP, you should easily be able to put all 20 shots through the same hole.

I look forward to the target.

 

[Rastoff]

snowman,
That's some fantastic shooting. I will run it through the software shortly, but it definitely looks better than my group.

 

[Rastoff]

100 yards, eight rounds, DA. I posted the conditions of this the other day so won't repeat details.

Thanks for the picture, but this isn't 8 rounds:

Maybe you posted the wrong pic? Besides, the challenge is for 20 rounds.

Combat reloads refer to a timed reload with moon clips. Here is an example of that at 25 yards. My split times on a good day can be as fast 0.01 seconds off the tone from the timer but usually not so fast. I have to check my timer records for a series like this with a combat reload as I don't remember off the top of my head other than its just under or (at if I am having a good day) 3 seconds.

You'll excuse me if I'm having trouble believing this.

This is what the fastest 12 shots on a single target, using a revolver, with a reload, looks like:

In case you don't recognize him, that's Jerry Miculek. He did it in 2.99 seconds and that's the current world record. And, his group is not as small as yours. So, you'll understand why I have difficulty when you say that you've beat his time, more than once. It's even more difficult when you say you're shooting that fast, at 25 yards and keeping the group smaller than 3".

I am curious though, if you shoot as good as you say you do, why aren't you winning the USPSA national championship every year? You are clearly the best shot on the circuit.

Nevertheless, this thread is as much about integrity as anything else. So, when you say you did it, I'll take you at your word. However, this thread is about a challenge I posted in the OP. I've never claimed to be a great shot, but I did post a target that meets the challenge. Some others have posted their targets. There's no reason, based on your speed, that you can't post a target that meets the criteria of the OP. Yes, it's boring, but it should be easy for you and would only take about 5 minutes to accomplish.

So, why not do it? You're at the range twice a day. You have the ammo, time and range at which to do it. Again, I look forward to the target.

 

[Rastoff]

OK, I ran snowman's target through the software and here is the result:

There it is, the first target to beat mine. I knew that someone would do it. This is not just a good group, but very accurate as well. That one shot on the right is just barely touching the line.

Alas, the shirt has already been promised. I will think of something else to commemorate this accomplishment.

 

[Rastoff]

Larry,

I have been polite to you, but have not received the same in return. No, I don't personally know Mr. Miculek, but obviously you do. Calling me a troll shows just how disrespectful you are.

Yes, I have a hard time believing what you say. The target you posted that supposedly has 8 rounds through 4 holes, shot at 100 yards, with a snub nosed revolver, is indeed hard to believe. However, I'll take you at your word; if you say you did it, you did it.

Now, what is the point of all this if you're not going to actually participate?

 

[Harkrader]

Next time out I'm going to try revolvers.

 

[hoc9sw]

I shot the "challenge" with the first 20 rounds through a new, cleaned but never fired H&K VP9. I beat the snot out of my earlier Shield & C3 targets (posted), but nothing to compete with the leaders so far. First 4 rounds were a cloverleaf. But then ...

OK, let it be said that having an objective makes the average "let's burn ammo" days more interesting. Guys at the range asked about my sudden interest in distance. Just told them it was 'Rastoff's Challenge". Some tried, none did better than me. I may be old, but I got to be old!

 

[hoc9sw]

And yes, I'll go with the Ruger Security Six target version Thursday, and will do much better.

It ain't S&W, but ...

Speaking of, I have A Ruger Single Six, but it is becoming too much to clear the casings one at a time. I've seen mention of past S&W .22 revolvers (all out of production). What is out there (current production) that is worth chasing?

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

Just got back into shooting, and about to revive my reloading bench. I will accept the challenge. Might use my SW40, then again I need to use up some 25 yr old reloads in my SW 686 that has a better trigger. Will post photos at that time. Have tri-focal glasses, hearing aids and shaky hands, but who cares.

 

[David R]

Thank you for keeping it open

I lost my shirt to snowman. The laser I used in post # 60 will be back any day and I will take the challenge again.

David

 

[Rastoff]

I'm glad y'all are having fun.

I just want to reiterate, if you're using a double action revolver, it must be shot double action for each shot. If you're using a DA/SA pistol, the first shot of each string must be DA and the subsequent shots must be SA. This is how these guns will be used in a self-defense shooting so, it only makes sense to practice with them that way. Even if this isn't the greatest representation of a self-defense scenario, it helps improve trigger control. So, use the gun the way you would in self-defense.

 

[hoc9sw]

Well, that rules out the Security Six. I can't pull the trigger in DA. Too stiff. It wasn't 30 years ago when I bought it, but things change. I'll have another go with the VP9.

 

[snowman]

I lost my shirt to snowman. The laser I used in post # 60 will be back any day and I will take the challenge again.

David

I have plenty of shirts already, David. If you have a laser, I doubt if you can be outdone anyway.

Regards,
Andy