Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet
- Thread starter Rastoff
- Start date
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
Sigh, it's a sad day in the world of shooting, any kind of shooting, when so many think that precision has no place.
gray wolf,
I'm sorry this challenge doesn't meet your expectations. I've tried to explain the whys and wherefores of this challenge, but you're bent on attacking it rather than trying to see the value. Fine, do what you like.
Are you going to shoot the challenge or not? If you are, we will welcome you. I will extend the offer once more to you; shoot the course of fire as laid out in the OP, keep all your shots in the orange and I'll send you a polo shirt with the Black River logo on it.
This does not give defensive shooters a bad name. It is simply using your defensive gun for some precision shooting. If you won't, or can't, participate in the challenge, start your own thread.
Maybe my second challenge is more your speed? http://smith-wessonforum.com/concealed-carry-self-defense/421991-rastoffs-challenge-ii.html
gray wolf,
I'm sorry this challenge doesn't meet your expectations. I've tried to explain the whys and wherefores of this challenge, but you're bent on attacking it rather than trying to see the value. Fine, do what you like.
Are you going to shoot the challenge or not? If you are, we will welcome you. I will extend the offer once more to you; shoot the course of fire as laid out in the OP, keep all your shots in the orange and I'll send you a polo shirt with the Black River logo on it.
This does not give defensive shooters a bad name. It is simply using your defensive gun for some precision shooting. If you won't, or can't, participate in the challenge, start your own thread.
Maybe my second challenge is more your speed? http://smith-wessonforum.com/concealed-carry-self-defense/421991-rastoffs-challenge-ii.html
OLDNAVYMCPO
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
I thought I would give your challenge a try today. I'm not interested in participating in the ongoing argument as to whether this is precision shooting or defensive shooting. Does it really matter, not to me. All my shooting is for the purpose of improving my skills. This was a more interesting challenge than I originally imagined it would be. Anyway, I shot the program using three Semi-autos that I might carry. The first was a Springfield Armory Champion .45 ACP, the second was a SIG P226 in .40 S&W, and last was a M&P .40 C. Below are the results. Didn't notice the second challenge until today. Will try it next range visit.
Attachments
prplbkrr
Member
It's not a flinch. My problem is thinking how well I am shooting, getting all hits inbounds, instead of concentrating on the next shot. As soon as I think I am a Hot Shot and this is easy, suddenly, I am not doing very well. My shooting falls apart. The difficult part is keeping my head in the game and not getting cocky.
ContinentalOp
Member
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If I may offer a suggestion...
One technique I use from time to time is a negative target. Basically, cut out a hole in your target of the size group you want. For example, if a 6" group is your goal, cut out a 6" diameter hole in the center of your target. Practice getting all your rounds in the hole. What this does is force you to focus on the shot you're trying to make now instead of seeing the bullet holes you've already made. As long as none of your rounds are hitting paper you're achieving your goal. Over time you can make the hole smaller or add distance to give yourself more of a challenge.
And from a self defense perspective, if you are forced to fire in self defense you probably won't be able to see where your bullets are hitting anyway, so it's also a way to train yourself to shoot accurately without getting immediate feedback.
Just something to consider.
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
prplbkr,
Yeah, that makes sense. It's one aspect that makes the challenge more difficult than it seems at first. By starting at 3 yards, it builds a slightly false confidence. 3 yards is easy for everyone. 5 is only slightly more difficult. It's the transition to 7 yards that gets most. It's usually at 7 that the miss comes. For most, if they get past 7, 10 is not too hard.
If this were shot in reverse order I belive it would be easier.
Yeah, that makes sense. It's one aspect that makes the challenge more difficult than it seems at first. By starting at 3 yards, it builds a slightly false confidence. 3 yards is easy for everyone. 5 is only slightly more difficult. It's the transition to 7 yards that gets most. It's usually at 7 that the miss comes. For most, if they get past 7, 10 is not too hard.
If this were shot in reverse order I belive it would be easier.
jdesro1911
Member
I installed some new sights on my M&P 40, so after I got it sighted in I decided to try this challenge.
First I tried it in .40S&W with a handload of 165gr Xtreme bullet over Win. 231.
033 by John, on Flickr
Next I dropped in the Storm Lake conversion barrel and shot it with a 9mm load of a Zero 125gr bullet over Win. 231
032 by John, on Flickr
Fun challenge - takes a crapload of concentration to do well on this.
First I tried it in .40S&W with a handload of 165gr Xtreme bullet over Win. 231.
033 by John, on FlickrNext I dropped in the Storm Lake conversion barrel and shot it with a 9mm load of a Zero 125gr bullet over Win. 231
032 by John, on FlickrFun challenge - takes a crapload of concentration to do well on this.
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
Nice shooting jdesro1911.
How do you like that straight trigger from Apex?
How do you like that straight trigger from Apex?
jdesro1911
Member
I like it a lot. It is like Apex says - it is about as close to a good 1911 trigger as you can get on a striker - fired pistol. Very crisp, virtually no slack or overtravel.
Apex says it should result in a trigger pull weight of 3 - 4 pounds but I think mine is heavier than that - but I only have a couple hundred rounds or so through it with this trigger, so it might get a little better with more use. We'll see, but overall I am very pleased with it.
Ole Joe Clark
Absent Comrade
My target would look like that, from 2 feet. 
Great shooting
Great shooting
colin1230
Member
Not a winner here but I took your challenge. And had fun doing it. Great exercise and good practice. I know I can shoot a little better so I reserve the right to try again.
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S&WIowegan
US Veteran
I somehow missed this until today. I have been shooting competitively(USPSA, IDPA, ICORE, Steel, Pins) since 1990 and grew up shooting on the farm. Until 2012, Iowa was a shall issue state at the sole discretion of each county sheriff. After 9/11 my wife and I decided to get our CCW permits. At the time, there was extensive classroom lecture plus shooting quals. We used your Challenge I COF and we were stunned to see how badly our classmates shot...I mean scary bad!
My wife and I shot the top two scores, got our permits and were required to reshoot the course every two years until the sheriff's clerks decided you could stop requalifying. We are now shall issue state with no serious training required.
I don't do pics so I can't post my targets. I can say I might be able to do as well as Rastoff but maybe not. I'm 73 now and have lost some of the edge although I still shoot regular matches.
My wife and I shot the top two scores, got our permits and were required to reshoot the course every two years until the sheriff's clerks decided you could stop requalifying. We are now shall issue state with no serious training required.
I don't do pics so I can't post my targets. I can say I might be able to do as well as Rastoff but maybe not. I'm 73 now and have lost some of the edge although I still shoot regular matches.
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OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
Nice shooting Bob O!
Nice enough to make me measure it with my software. Here's his target:
At 2.2" it isn't as small as my group, but it's small enough that it might fit in the orange center of the B-27E. If you remember from the OP, the actual challenge is just to keep all the shots in the orange. This means I had to do some more calculations because Bob O didn't use the same target.
Brother, it was close. Alas, the top shot is 2" from the center. Since the orange oval is 3" tall, this shot would be 1/2" too high to have kept the whole group in the orange. Man, so close.
Still, very good shooting. Thanks for doing it.
Nice enough to make me measure it with my software. Here's his target:
At 2.2" it isn't as small as my group, but it's small enough that it might fit in the orange center of the B-27E. If you remember from the OP, the actual challenge is just to keep all the shots in the orange. This means I had to do some more calculations because Bob O didn't use the same target.
Brother, it was close. Alas, the top shot is 2" from the center. Since the orange oval is 3" tall, this shot would be 1/2" too high to have kept the whole group in the orange. Man, so close.
Still, very good shooting. Thanks for doing it.
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Ole Joe Clark
Absent Comrade
I printed off some of the target you supplied. Hoping to get to the range one day next week to try my hand at it. The heat and humidity here is really bad, especially on us over 40 (make that waaaaay over 40) crowd, so I need to go really early one morning.
That was great shooting Bob O.
That was great shooting Bob O.
Thanks guys.
Rastoff, the orange centers on my targets are decals that were advertised as 2", so my groups aren't that great. Though I'm very happy with this 1911, it will take some getting used to.
I'll try your challenge again after I get a couple hundred rounds through it.
ADDED:
Rastoff, I re-read your post.....I understand what you're saying now. I'll have to order some silhouette targets or make some centers that are the proper size for next time. Thank you for measuring it for me! I love this challenge and have respect for anyone who tries it and posts their pics.
Rastoff, the orange centers on my targets are decals that were advertised as 2", so my groups aren't that great. Though I'm very happy with this 1911, it will take some getting used to.
I'll try your challenge again after I get a couple hundred rounds through it.
ADDED:
Rastoff, I re-read your post.....I understand what you're saying now. I'll have to order some silhouette targets or make some centers that are the proper size for next time. Thank you for measuring it for me! I love this challenge and have respect for anyone who tries it and posts their pics.
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prplbkrr
Member
What I have been considering is putting up a 1" target, (aim small, miss small) then overlay a 2"x3" target afterwards and see how I did. Though doing it that way may not fall within the spirit of the challenge.
If I did the negative target, with my luck I would shoot it clean, but couldn't prove it because there would only be a 2"x 3" hole. LOL
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