Real Gunsmiths Disappearing

[diyj98]

I agree. Lots of people work on guns, but replacing parts is a long ways from being a gunsmith. A local shop just made a big deal of adding two "gunsmiths". They build AR's and boresight customers rifles. So far that's all I've observed of their gunsmithing skills.

 

[malph]

A True Gunsmith is quite a rare item these days. In my day to be called a Gunsmith required Machinist skills with the ability to make parts to a fine degree of tolerance, Mechanical Skills, ability to read Prints and weld. Today it Bolt on Bob who clams to be a Smith.

"Bolt on Bob". I like that. If you are ok with that I'm going to start using that.

 

[H Richard]

Feel lucky if you have a licensed gunsmith in your area. We have a couple self taught tool and die makers that do a little gunsmithing. I'm glad S&W's seldom require gunsmithing and what little has been required I have been alb to do myself. Anything major and we are having to hunt up someone and having to mail the items out.

 

[Protocall_Design]

If you want to end up with a million dollars doing gunsmithing, start with 5 million and dive in...

 

[garbler]

Years ago I sacrificed time and money to attend two gunsmith schools in hopes of filling a need for a mechanic to repair and build comp revolvers and 1911’s. At the time New England and the Midwest were pretty strong in PPC, IPSC, plates, pins, silhouette and Bullseye. After schooling I worked part time in a couple of shops honing my hand skills but mostly learning machine operation. I stretched and sold half my collection to buy tools and tooling and to set up a small shop, advertise and license. For six years or more I kept a backlog of at least seven to ten guns every month which was enough without pissing people off. I took on servicing rental guns at two indoor ranges that usually required fully two days a week always a rush. These guns were generally abused, dropped and dirtier than you can imagine from low cost range reloads. But it was a great learning experience and the volume got me familiar with several factory parts dept people and how to play the game.

After about six years it didn’t require a business major to realize if your good and busy you can barely make a living or about half of what a construction worker made. It seemed like the business was always on the edge. I’d find myself farming out machine work cause I couldn’t justify new tooling for the mill or lathe. But I soon realized it was often smarter business wise to farm out some machining or welding work to small operators I knew and trusted. In this day and age it doesn’t alway pay to try and do it all when a specialist will do it faster, better and cheaper. The poster who stated he knew gunsmiths making six figures is very very hard to believe. Might gross six figures but unless he is marketing a proprietary part or accessory I don’t believe it. Smithing is an ever evolving trade that like repairing electronics or outboard motors requires continuous schooling, a stream of tools, fixtures and parts and if you want to make serious money you make race or performance parts and/or accessories. Just browse Brownells today then, if have them, look at a 70’s catalogs and notice the hundreds of non-factory performance parts offered. A CNC shop or EDM set up and two people can corner a market — for a while anyway.

It’s a satisfying business with the right type of clientele. That is real shooters who appreciate good guns and good work at a fair price. Online business where nobody knows each other and communications are weak is a different situation I’m sure. I left the business when you still walked through the door. There are still lots of very qualified gunsmiths working today and more coming out of the schools. Remember though, just going to school doesn’t guarantee you are going to come out worth a damn, or want to work at it. There are charlatans in every trade so buyer beware. However the really good shops are going to be busy like every other skill or trade so you wait your turn or ? And it should be understood that the price you paid for a gun should have no bearing on a gunsmiths time and charges. Every gunsmith knows all too well that the basic 2.25 hr job can go over the cliff for just one pin or screw that doesn’t like you. If a person is serious and wants to seriously build a gunsmith business ( not a hobby ) then realize your likely never going to make any real money and if you let your heart run the books instead of your calculator you’ll probably go broke.

 

[Protocall_Design]

The previous post is the most realistic view of the gunsmithing world I've read in a long time. This is the way it is, folks. You may make your reputation building custom guns, but the money is in aftermarket parts.

The reason is because the parts are a production item that, if done correctly, you can make many more dollars per hour on than doing bench work. If done wrong, CNC is just a faster way to make scrap. You still have to keep close tabs on profit and loss numbers no matter what you're doing.

I only work on my own guns because doing it as a business just doesn't pay very well. At least I'm not a good enough businessman to make it pay. There's a big difference between being good in the shop and being good at running a business. Very few are good at both.

 

[ContinentalOp]

The previous post is the most realistic view of the gunsmithing world I've read in a long time. This is the way it is, folks. You may make your reputation building custom guns, but the money is in aftermarket parts.

Sounds like the path Wilson, Brown, et al., followed.

 

[LCC]

My gunsmith/GS owner cannot find affordable front counter help with a solid understanding of what they are selling, so is constantly interrupted in the back where he is smithing to answer customer questions.
So he is now backing out of the back room to spend more time at the counter.
As he put it, he can either makes several thousand $ a day in the front, or several hundred $ a day in the back.

 

[Pig Hunter]

The recurrent view mentioned that is erroneous is that there is some sort of a gunsmith license. You need an FFL to take in other persons guns as a business. You only need to use the FFL and call yourself a gunsmith. The only member of The American Custom Gunmakers Guild that I am aware of that has only been a gunsmith as an occupation is Jerry Fischer. He is a legendary rifle maker but has a good cash flow from the scrapers he makes with his wife. You can get stuff done fast, cheap or well done. Pick 2. A one man shop is becoming a thing of the past because without another form of cash flow they can't spend enough time on the bench to get good at something and run all the paperwork that has to be done to keep the business legal. If you work for someone like Les Baer you spend you whole day doing one thing. Checker front straps, fitting slides or cutting dove tails for sights. You don't actually build a gun till you are so high in the food chain and you wanted to you can't go out on your own because you signed a non compete clause when you started. If you want to have a local guy support him from the beginning. If he does good work bring him a lot and don't balk at whatever he or she ( there are a lot of talented women) wants to charge.

 

[chief38]

Finding a really great GS at a somewhat affordable price who can get the job done in a fair amount of time and has good communication skills is like finding a snowball in Hawaii in July

 

[Injunbro]

There are gunsmiths then there are parts swappers, armorers & Bubbas. If you can't make any part you ain't a gunsmith. I owned a gunsmithing business for over 30 years (now retired). I apprenticed from Grandpa who could build or fix anything then went to machinist & welding schools to learn modern equipment. Grandpa did everything the old way, made all parts, welded, tempered, made springs, checkered, etc. I did very little retail & had no interest in it. In the 80's I made good money sporterizing Mauser rifles, I could make more on a Saturday than working all week @ a regular job (I worked another job 8 hrs. a day to help pay bills + 6hrs.@ night 4-5 nights a week & all day Saturday). Like mechanics most gunsmiths prefer to work on custom projects, not change a tire on a Kia or clean your gummed up Mossberg. There's no real money in repairs: Good guns don't need much, cheap guns aren't worth it... & there's always the dork who checks his broken rifle the day before deer season & doesn't understand poor planning on his part isn't an emergency to you or the other customers he wants to bump. Custom builds are fun but time consuming & require a lot of expensive tools (you could buy a new truck cheaper). I sold most of my tools when I retired & despite whining from those who want me to I'm NOT buying more, I like being retired. The only guns I work on now are my own projects (or a very few close friends). No, I don't want to look @ your Glock, Mossberg, Hi Point, Taurus, Remington or other gun that costs more to fix than it cost. Hint regarding Remington 700's: If your gun goes bang when you close the bolt soak the trigger in alcohol for a couple days, scrub & stop using Remoil, sewing machine & 3-in-1 oil. Hoppes is the cure.

 

[jc2721]

Finding a really great GS at a somewhat affordable price who can get the job done in a fair amount of time and has good communication skills is like finding a snowball in Hawaii in July

You'd have to climb the mountain for that!

 

[Biggfoot44]

Most of the time when people speak of "gunsmith " in generic terms , what they're really seeking is a competent Armorer . ( Yes , there is a shortage of reasonably available competent armorers ).

The Golden Age of Gunsmiths in every town , if not every street corner to a large extent included guys who worked as Machinists either in the Military , or defense contractors during WWII or Korea .. Any still alive , are mid 80's to 90's .

It's only slightly joking to describe the career path to become a true Gunsmith ( or custom knife makerl) : Become an experienced tool & die maker, or master machinist . Decide you hate your job so much , it's worth it you to take a 50 to 75% pay cut to work on guns ( or make custom knives ) instead .

 

[chief38]

It's a GREAT TIME to start learning at least the basic GS-ing skills. Finding a competent GS will get harder and harder!

 

[2152hq]

I've been at this for 50+ yrs.
30+ of it full time as a one man operation.

I do just about all of my own work. About the only things I have to send out now are casecolor for large parts (frames,ect), Plating for same, and Hot Salt Blue.
Everything else I do myself.
Stockmaking, checkering & carving,wood finish, metal work, metal finishes, parts making, welding (could be better!), bbl work, restorations, upgrades, engraving and inlay, ect.
It's all pretty much self taught and what I could pick up from others at shops I did work for and few I work in.

I had no real specialty though 'restoration & upgrading' might come close.
I was able to make a very nice living in those 30+ years as a full timer doing the work and a very nice extra $$ job as a part time job before that.

I was never in to the retail side of the gun business. Never had a 'store' as such,,no walk in traffic.
Nice and quiet, I do my work and the jobs got finished. The customers got to be pretty much an established group. They knew me and trusted me with their firearms.
Now I don't take in any new work. I have a bunch of project guns from all those years back that never got worked on. Now is the time. Now or never and some will probably be never!

It can be a very nice business, it's all in what you expect from it.

 

[roguegamma]

Most new gun owners care about two firearms and two only:

Glocks and AR-15s.

That's the demographic most of my local "gunsmiths" cater to. A year or so ago I looked for smith to swap out a cylinder on a model 36. A few long-time smiths who had practiced far enough into the Internet era to have good online reputations had recently retired. The gentlemen I did eventually consult with had no experience or interest in working with revolvers. Nothing wrong with slapping AR parts together, I just wish some of the new generation would develop a level of curiosity and reverence for guns that pre-date the black plastic fad.

 

[noshow]

Between the advent of CNC fabrication and the use of plastic in manufacture, the demand/need for gunsmiths has gone the way of the lamplighter

 

[federali]

Many Factors at Play

With increasing competition among gun manufacturers, many now offer custom touches as standard that were once gunsmith modifications. The extended safety on a Model 1911 is just one example of a former custom modification.

A second factor is the proliferation of polymer gun frames, particularly in carry guns, that are often ready to carry right out of the box and don't usually require gunsmith attention unless you're changing sights.

My own gunsmith is getting on in years and in poor health. His rifle work was often used on the Leupold optics catalog to showcase their line of scopes. The first sentence of this paragraph fits me also: my need for custom touches is rapidly waning.

Lets not forget that a true gunsmith is also a true machinist. Machinist skills are being designed out of new products. Just my opinion, right, wrong or somewhere in-between.

 

[tops]

I have gave up looking for someone too work on my S&W revolvers. I can change the main spring but that is my limit. I find it's cheaper and less trouble too pay extra for a super nice one and when it quits working put in the bottom of the drawer and buy another one. I now have 2 K frames .22s in the drawer but I still have 2 that working ok. At my age that may be enough. Larry

 

[Drm50]

I don’t have a gunsmith anymore, he passed. He was the kind that could build a rifle from scratch, fix revolvers and stock work. Not to many guys are going to risk what it cost to tool up a shop when politics may shut it down. It aggravates me to see signs on gun shops that say gunsmith on duty. They come in two types, the AR mechanics who think they are gunsmiths because they have bought the tools. The other kind are wanna bees who have a bucket of dollar store tools to build ARs. I wouldn’t let these guys near any of my guns. Some know their limitations and won’t take in work that is above their pay grade.