Reconsidering 9mm for Home Defense Given LAPD Shooting

[biku324]

I don't know what level of certainty LEOs get regarding a situation, but if there's any possibility of a bad guy with a firearm, I would expect them to err on the side of safety (their own and others).

Police officers get no leeway when deciding on deadly force. Their actions will be examined by internal affairs, review panels, often grand juries, occasionally criminal courts, very often civil court. For years. You need to be right. It comes with the job - policing is an armed service.

Do recall the 'totality of the circumstances' test. There were at least five LAPD officers within 20 or 30 feet of the suspect, with more covering every entrance/exit, and even more coming up the escalator; they were on the second floor of a department store. Whacko Walliy wasn't getting away.

 

[VictorLouis]

from a blog I suscribe to:

Correcting an Assumption: The shot that pierced the wall of a dressing room of a North Hollywood Burlington store, killing a 14-year-old girl, is now reported as having been fired from an LAPD officer's rifle, not a handgun as I assumed. Two years ago, LAPD was reportedly using a Black Hills 5.56mm round load with a 50 gr. all-copper Barnes TSX bullet. Assuming no change, I suspect that the "monolithic" composition of the allowed the bullet to remain intact as it ricocheted and penetrated the interior wall. The lead-core, 55 gr. bullet of the original M193 5.56mm round typically starts to yaw on entering a frame-stucco wall, then snaps in two at the crimping cannelure before reaching the far side of the wall. Interior walls are another matter and "skipping" off a floor would likely reduce velocity to some degree; in one image from the video, the flooring in the corridor where the shot was fired appears to be of very smooth, shiny tile.

--

 

[biku324]

"The lead-core, 55 gr. bullet of the original M193 5.56mm round typically starts to yaw on entering a frame-stucco wall, then snaps in two at the crimping cannelure before reaching the far side of the wall."

That's not what actually happened in the 4 police shootings I've attended wherein M193 ball was used from 20" barreled rifles.

 

[RCL-09]

Frankly, my concern would be why when of 4 or 5 officers together responding that knew the suspect was, " ....hitting her on the side of the head..." from dispatch, one or two immediately fired on the suspect who was several feet away from the victim, not attacking her, trying to leave (meaning escape), and who did not have a firearm or knife in his hand, but a chain and lock.

Listen to dispatch; watch what happened. Not good for risk management.

That too is a (separate and distinct) concern.

As to the shooting itself I have a lot of questions similar to the issues you raised. There is going to be a lot of recordings and video footage reviewed which will hopefully clear us those concerns/questions.

 

[mrmike7189]

I think we all just need a double barelled shotgun, you can rack it and fire one shot into the air, all the bad guys will just run away. Joe Biden

 

[WR Moore]

"Please don't let your legal hogwash prevent a CCW holder from an opportunity to use "suppressive" fire. Such a buzzkill."

Guess I'm just Debbie Downer (kicks dirt). biku324

I was really hoping the quoted comment was sarcasm.

Note to moderators: the quote function isn't working as intended.

 

[Doug M.]

The outcome was bad.

The shooting may or may not have been flawed, although I am not bothered by violent offenders dying as a result of their actions. In retrospect, the dissent in Garner was right.

The PLATFORM was not the problem - and that is what I meant about crybabies.

 

[Gamecock]

If you're worried about collateral damage in a Home Defense scenario, then I would sooner recommend lining your interior walls with tile or something else that may slow down, break up, or stop projectiles than try to find a new cartridge or load which won't penetrate drywall, at least then you have the fringe benefit of two-way protection which will prevent bullets from entering or exiting your home.

A very simple and effective barrier is a bookcase, loaded with books, or standing magazines. Packed, dry paper will stop most bullets.

 

[giants1]

Gamecock wrote: A very simple and effective barrier is a bookcase, loaded with books, or standing magazines. Packed, dry paper will stop most bullets.

Thanks. The area in question at my place is a bit too tight for a bookcase, but would 5/8" plywood covered by some sort of metal, say of the Simpson Strong Tie type used for earthquake and hurricane retrofits, suffice?

 

[URIT]

I'd call my local police department and find out what rounds they are using in their duty weapons if I were concerned about over penetration and criminal or civil action.

I'd focus most of my attention on hardening the house from home invasion attacks to give me more time to react to a threat by arming myself, retreating to a secured safe room (MBR with a secure bar on the locked door), and calling 911. I'd be sure to stay on the line so there would be a recording that I had warned the intruder(s) that I was armed, that I'd shoot if they broke into my room, and 911 had been called and police were responding.

 

[biku324]

I'd move if gunfire at my house was that much of a concern.

 

[giants1]

Back to 12 gauge shotguns, I'm a newbie, though I understand #00 and #4 buckshot. I've never heard of #0 buckshot:

12 Gauge | Buckshot | 0B Shot | Aguila Ammunition

Would it have less over-penetration than #00?

 

[mattallamerican]

sheet rock is far from a barrier

 

[Gamecock]

Thanks. The area in question at my place is a bit too tight for a bookcase, but would 5/8" plywood covered by some sort of metal, say of the Simpson Strong Tie type used for earthquake and hurricane retrofits, suffice?

Sorry, don't know. Just know about bookcases. I don't know what Simpson Strong Tie is.

HOWEVER, it's something you can test. Make up a sample and take it to the range. Which sounds like a fun project to me.

I assume a metal plate barrier will introduce a new concern: ricochets.