Red dot sight for S&W Model 52

[mikemyers]

At some point in the future, I'd like to try out a red dot sight on my Model 52, probably the new one that Don has been teaching me how to work on. If it's really fixed (will know in three weeks) that's probably the one to use.

I found two possibilities for a red dot sight, both from BME.
BME-Mounts

One is for an Aimpoint Micro, and the other is for an Ultradot LT. The Aimpoint is probably my favorite red dot sight, but the Ultradot LT is small and light, which may make it more suitable for the Model 52.

Does anyone have any experience with these, and are there good reasons to buy one rather than the other?

I'm currently in India, doing volunteer work for Aravind Eye Hospital. They made me two new pair of shooting glasses, one for "distance vision" (red dot sight) and one for the exact distance to the M-52 front sight from my eye (24 inches) using two-hands - I already have a pair with a prescription for 30" for shooting one handed. If I can shoot equally well with steel or red dot sights, I think I'll try to use steel.

There is another option for me:
Viper/Venom S&W 52 Sight Mount (fits Burris FastFire and Docter): EGW Gun Parts
...but I think I'll stick with Ultradot or Aimpoint unless someone convinces me that other sights are better....

 

[batman4706]

EGW makes one that replaces the rear sight (Product #: 493090) that I am currently using with a Vortex Venom.

 

[Tom S.]

One thing to determine before purchase is the size of the dot. If you are shooting target, smaller dots (2 or 3 MOA) work best, IMHO. If you are shooting larger targets like plates, many prefer larger dots.

When it comes to the dot itself, a dot is a dot. In other words a $400 dot won't look much different than a $100 dot. There are other factors though. Battery life, battery type and replacement, optical window size, ease of adjustment, etc. One area that probably separates the high dollar from the low dollar is durability. Putting a $50 on a .22 is probably OK (I've done it) while putting one on a .357 mag probably is not.

I would consider 3: the Vortex Venom ($180), Leupold Delta Point Pro ($400) and the Burris Fast Fire($220). Size of the window ranges thus: VV - smallest, then BFF followed by LDPP with the largest. I would consider the BFF a good compromise in terms of cost, viewing window and reputation for durability. The Leupold offers long battery life, auto shut off and turn on, lifetime warranty and of course their name/reputation, but does cost more. Another feature of the Leupold is you can add a co-witness site to the rear (for additional cost, of course). The Venom Viper is a good lower cost alternative and works great for target shooting, but the smaller viewing window would be a hindrance if fast target acquisition is needed, at least for me.

My personal choice (and I do own all three, plus some other brands not mentioned) is the Leupold. I look at it from the "pay once, cry once" perspective. You may be able to help mitigate the cost if you can find one used.

Hope that helps.

 

[505Gibbs]

One other factor with the higher end scopes is the amount of internal adjustment - IMO.

 

[Wolvey]

What mount are you planning to use? I personally have only seen one that does not require d/t, it replaces one of the grip panels and swoops up to a mount, Weaver style if I remember correctly.

 

[handlebar]

At some point in the future, I'd like to try out a red dot sight on my Model 52, probably the new one that Don has been teaching me how to work on. If it's really fixed (will know in three weeks) that's probably the one to use.

I found two possibilities for a red dot sight, both from BME.
BME-Mounts

One is for an Aimpoint Micro, and the other is for an Ultradot LT. The Aimpoint is probably my favorite red dot sight, but the Ultradot LT is small and light, which may make it more suitable for the Model 52.

Does anyone have any experience with these, and are there good reasons to buy one rather than the other?

I'm currently in India, doing volunteer work for Aravind Eye Hospital. They made me two new pair of shooting glasses, one for "distance vision" (red dot sight) and one for the exact distance to the M-52 front sight from my eye (24 inches) using two-hands - I already have a pair with a prescription for 30" for shooting one handed. If I can shoot equally well with steel or red dot sights, I think I'll try to use steel.

There is another option for me:
Viper/Venom S&W 52 Sight Mount (fits Burris FastFire and Docter): EGW Gun Parts
...but I think I'll stick with Ultradot or Aimpoint unless someone convinces me that other sights are better....

As I stated on the Bullseye-L, I use the Venom on my 52 and love it.
handlebar or mustachio I am the same guy.

 

[boatbum101]

I have a 1" Ultradot with the BME mount that replaces the rear sight . Was the lightest of the available options at the time . The new Aimpoint mini sights are light but pricey . The non-tube ones wash out if the sun's behind you . I also run a Wolff 7lb reduced power recoil spring with this setup . Mine also prefers either the Rem or Zero 148 HBWC , Fed 100 primers , 3.1 to 3.2grs W231 or 3.6grs VVN-340 , taper crimp to .369 . I also use R-P brass as they have thinnest walls & I have no problems with them reducing bullet size . Another trick is to take a Lee FCD & remove the guts , using only the die body with the carbide ring intact to size brass instead of FL sizing . Slightly bell case mouth with Lyman M die just enough to allow bullets to be started / seated w/o shaving . I also taper crimp as I was taught by the late Jerry Keefer . It works for me . If you'll search my past posts here you'll find loads , targets & pics of gun & how I set it up . Rather you chose to follow is up to you , but I think I make a compelling case . Especially when you see my 50yd targets shot offhand . FWIW I only shoot one-handed as the rules are very clear on this . For me the barrel weight is a must as it really helps me to have a steadier hold . When Eric Bjuling shot his record with a 52 he used a massive 100 gram barrel weight . Another 52 issue is with the grip frame configuration it does not fit many shooters hands . Orthopedic grips can help but they're like training wheels on a bicycle . I do not use them on any other of my target guns . They do however help a new shooter to learn to develop a consistent grip .

 

[mikemyers]

Lots to think about. Other than the cost, any negative considerations regarding the Aimpoint Micro? I have two now, and like them more than my other sights. I'm tempted to 'borrow' one from one of my other guns to try it out.

 

[03Fatboy]

I believe a member here made a limited run on mounts for the 52. Send him a message and see if he has any left, handle is revolver_ph. They are pretty slick. He typically stocks mounts for revolvers and the model 41 and can be found in the Classifieds.

 

[Tom S.]

I've not heard anything negative about Aimpoint, and have one of their early products (tube type) that has given me zero problems. Like Leupold, they do charge extra for their name though.

 

[boatbum101]

Personally I think the Aimpoint are the best . They are robust , clear & adjustments are precise / repeatable . I have no problem paying for superior performance . I set mine up before they were even available so I chose the lightest possible & the Ultradot was the choice of many at that time . I would love a 30mm tube but they are heavier for sure . I was concerned about adding any more weight than necessary with a slide mounted dot . As is ejection is just enough for gun to function . It's possible that the dwell time is just right as I seem to get better accuracy than most @ 50yds . Anyway it works that's all I can say .

 

[Kp321]

I went with a Burris Fast Fire III and the EGW mount. The mount replaces the rear sight perfectly, I really didn't want to drill any holes on my pristine 52-1. The FF is light enough to not have any effect on the operation of the pistol and is rugged enough to "ride the slide" and hold zero.
The Ultradot and Aimpoint units are great and allow quick acquisition of the dot but to me, that is a minor issue with bullseye.

 

[mikemyers]

I believe a member here made a limited run on mounts for the 52. Send him a message and see if he has any left, handle is revolver_ph. They are pretty slick. He typically stocks mounts for revolvers and the model 41 and can be found in the Classifieds.

I couldn't find "Re....." in the member's list here. Could it be something else?

I will now try to find him in the classifieds.... Thanks!

 

[mikemyers]

Nope:
=====================================
"Mike,

We stopped making mounts for the model 52 because sales were so low. Since then we have occasionally made one on special order. We never did a design for the sights you mention. We have designs for the Burris Fastfire and compatibles as well as for the Leupold Deltapoint Pro.

Our current production mounts are on our webpage linked below.

Raptor Engineering

Regards,
Phillip
Design Engineer
Raptor Engineering"
=====================================

 

[RGPM1A]

I had an Ultra Dot L/T sight on my model 52 until I switched to a model 952. Also have one on my model 41. All used BME Mounts. All have survived thousands of rounds.

 

[mikemyers]

I had an Ultra Dot L/T sight on my model 52 until I switched to a model 952. Also have one on my model 41. All used BME Mounts. All have survived thousands of rounds.

On the Model 41, it doesn't move with the slide, but on the 52 (and 952) it does. Good to know that it worked out well. Did you need to make any change in the recoil spring?

The Aimpoint is a little heavier, so I'm still concerned about that. If I order from BME, as I likely will, maybe I'll get both, and see what I prefer at the range, assuming the 52 cycles OK.

I've got two 52's, but no 952. I keep thinking of getting one, but the price keeps going up. I should have bought one when I first thought of doing so.

 

[RGPM1A]

On the Model 41, it doesn't move with the slide, but on the 52 (and 952) it does. Good to know that it worked out well. Did you need to make any change in the recoil spring?

The Aimpoint is a little heavier, so I'm still concerned about that. If I order from BME, as I likely will, maybe I'll get both, and see what I prefer at the range, assuming the 52 cycles OK.

I've got two 52's, but no 952. I keep thinking of getting one, but the price keeps going up. I should have bought one when I first thought of doing so.

Didn't have to change recoil springs on either 52 or 952. However in the 52 I used 148 gr Hornady HBWC over 3.3gr of Win 231. In the 952 I used a Meister 150gr LSWC over 3.5gr of Power pistol.

BTW I found it much easier to shoot the 952 well than the 52. Maybe because it cycled faster?

 

[mikemyers]

........I found it much easier to shoot the 952 well than the 52. Maybe because it cycled faster?

Everyone tells me, and my own experience matches what they say, that the Model 52 is very picky. Mistakes that you make on other guns look far worse with the 52. That includes grip, follow-through, trigger release, everything. I accepted that this is true, but I never found a reason for it. I'm guessing that the bullet is so much slower, the gun can be disturbed before the bullet has left the barrel, but that's just a guess. It's picky about everything, including reloads. I guess with 9mm those issues don't exist so much?

How would you compare the red dots on the M-52 compared the the steel sights you removed?

 

[Rick H.]

I have a couple of Trijicon 1 MOA RMR's on my 52's. I like the smaller DOT for precision shooting. The Trijicon has worked quite well for me. On one 52 I use a BME mount and on the other an EGW mount. Both work okay, but the BME mount doesn't fit quite a nicely as the EGW does. It's an entirely different game using a red dot for precision pistol shooting and it's not as easy as some may think it is. You can't "chase the dot" which is quite common. I try to get my shots off much faster when using a red dot than iron sights and hopefully avoid becoming too intent on watching or chasing a wobbling dot. I haven't noticed any big difference between using a red dot or using the iron sights, it's just something different and adds another element to the game so to speak. Many say a 1 MOA dot is too small for use on a pistol, but I don't believe that. If it looks too small under prevailing conditions I brighten up the dot a bit.


Rick H.

 

[RGPM1A]

How would you compare the red dots on the M-52 compared the the steel sights you removed?

The iron sights on the 52 are very good. Among the best of all the guns I have. The red dots make it easier for me to shoot better and to avoid having to wear reading glasses to see the iron sights (which also causes the targets to be a little blurred). I think the L/Ts have 2 or 3 moa dots don't remember which.

BTW the previous post about chasing the dot is valid. If you try to do that you will take forever to take a shot and shoot poorly. You have to squeeze the trigger as soon as the sight picture is right.