Red Dot Site

[Bill T.]

Hi all,

Looking for some input on putting a Red Dot Sight on my K-22 model 17. Being new to this stuff, I have found out that I will have to get a Weaver Mount to replace the Iron Site now on the gun. Any one have one on a K-22 model 17 that could put up a picture of? I saw the sight at the Bass Pro Shop in Foxboro, MA It is a BSA Panoramic Red Dot.

Thanks for any help,

Bill T.

 

[H Richard]

Mod 17 with a Millet Red Dot mounted.

 

[Bill T.]

Red Dot Sight

Thanks for the reply H.Richard,
Is that a Weaver mount or is it by Millet. The sight I am interested in is a BSA Panoramic Red Dot. It looks like it would fit on that mount you have. Are there any other mounts that you know of? shorter? Does your mount attach just at the back where the original iron sight was? Thanks in advance.

Bill T.

 

[H Richard]

It's a B Square mount. It attach's with one front screw and the "T" slot rear mount screw. It's a standard weaver base, and anything that takes a weaver base will fit. Be cautious about the BSA. I bought one from Midway about a year ago, and it was no good. Dot wouldn't stay lit. Sent back and got another, same story. Got a third, and same story. I bought the Millet and couldn't be happier. I also have a Tasco PDP2 on a High Standard Victor and it is good also, but a little less intensity of dot. I also have a AccuDot, and it isn't bad but not as bright as the Millet either. I just got a Burris Fast Fire II, and it is on the way back to Burris as the dot is too dim and not big enough It is supposed to be a 4 MOA dot, but wasn't half that size. I'll make my mind up on the Burris when I get the replacement.
Length-wise, you could probably saw off the amount you don't need. It wouldn't be difficult, but you would then have a shiney aluminum end on it.

 

[Bill T.]

Red Dot Sight

Thanks again H.Richard,
Let me see if I have this correct. First you had way too much trouble with the BSA, but with the Millet there haven't been any problems. What is the cost of the Millets ? or can I get them off the net. When you said that it was a B Square Mount, is that a model of a Weaver or a Millet or a different brand. I'm going to check out all those sights that you mention. I liked the look and size of the BSA plus the price. I have seen sights in stores, on line etc. but can't afford the high price.

 

[H Richard]

Yes, I had a lot of trouble with the BSA. I wouldn't recommend. The Millet was around $79 I think, got it about a year ago. The B Square is a brand name, and are available from Midway, Brownells, probably lots of other places. Just need to specify K Frame S&W, and the Model. Mine is a 17-4 which was not predrilled for scope mount, so the mount I got was for that style. The screw placement of the mounts is a little different for the newer models that have the three predrilled holes in the top-strap. The Millet should be available from Midway, Natchez, or several other places. You may have good luck with the BSA, and they may have corrected it's problems I had a year ago.

 

[tom turner]

Ditto on what Bill T. said.

I had the same model Millett for many years on a Ruger .44 Mag. carbine and it holds it's zero and has 10 settings of brightness from "last light" dim to full-raging, blazing red for the middle of the day.

Best of all, it ain't no cheap piece of junk. It should hold zero and be VERY precise . . . for years to come.

T.

 

[Bill T.]

Red Dot Sight

Thanks Again H.Richard and thank you Tom for your comments.
The model K-22 is a newer model I think than yours. I am going to attach a picture of the gun and the sight area. If I can figure out how to do it. I can't figure it out. Anyway, it has two screws, a small one at the front which is permanent and the rear one which also raises and lowers the sight.

 

[H Richard]

It's easy to see, if you have the predrilled model just look at the bottom side of the top strap with the cylinder open. You will see 3 holes. If not, you have the same frame as I have. The mount installs with a "T" footed bolt in the recess of the frame where the elevation screw is, and the front screw hole iw where the front mount screw goes. Be sure to not lose the little screw from the front of the iron sights you are removing. It's little and easy to lose. Put it with the sight in a plastic bag and mark it for the gun.

When removing the rear sight, you don't have to fully unscrew the elevation nut, just loosen it up and slide it to the rear out of the "T" recess of the frame.

 

[Dale53]

Weigand makes a fine Weaver style mount for the pre-drilled S&W's. A good gunsmith can also handle the earlier models that were not drilled (they can use the mount as a jig). The sight is removed with this method. When the sight is re-installed, the holes will be covered (just like they are with the new ones from the factory).

Smith Wesson scope mount KLN frame

I have a dozen Red Dot sights. The best buy in a quality Red Dot is Simmons. Overstock.com has them for under fifty dollars. Get the 30 mm size with four reticules. Here is what they look like on an "N" frame S&W:

You will note that that has a B-Square mount base on the gun. The Weigand is a bit more elegant, but no better in any meaningful way.

I suggest the 30 mm size as it is a bit easier to "find the hole" and has a greater field of view. Any larger and the revolver becomes top heavy. In my view, the 30 mm is JUST RIGHT. The Simmons has a life time warranty. The Simmons is rated to include the recoil from a .44 magnum but NOT any heavier load (.454 Casull would be off limits).

I have used a Simmons on my 625's for thousands of shots (.45 ACP) with NO problems.

Ultra Dot is a fine Red Dot sight and is rated for the "heavy hitters" (.454 Casull and above) but costs over $200.00.

As always, "You pays your money and makes your choice".

I have a Model 617, 10 shot 6" barrel with a Red Dot but don't have a picture of it.

Dale53

 

[Bill T.]

Red Dot Sight

I want to acknowledge Dale. Thanks Dale. My wife and I are heading out to dinner with friends shortly but I wanted to get back to you guys, Dale & H.Richard.

Quick note and then I will get back on this later. H.Richard, I looked under the strap and the only screw hole I can see is a small one toward the front near the barrel. No others.

Back at you folks later, gotta go............

 

[HAWKEYE10]

Take 2 people with equal shooting ability, one
with a Red Dot and one with open sights, the guy
with the open sights will win almost every time.
The reason is the magnified movement of the dot. Don

 

[magstang1]

I just purchased a Millet. It was about $90 shipped to my home. I read quite a bit and the Millet is probably one of, if not the best buy for a red dot under $100. You can get the tube in 30mm or 1 inch. You can get the dot in a couple different sizes. I opted for the 3 moa dot. You can get a silver finish or a black finish. It comes with see through lens caps that have an elastic retainer cord. You just slide them over the front and rear lens. I haven't taken my covers off yet. I usually shoot with them on. I have heard that some places include the mounting rings and some places do not. I ordered from midsouth shooters supply, and mine came with the rings. If you look closely at the first photo that was posted in this thread you will see that there is a screw in tube extension that is about 1 inch long that is installed on the front of the sight. I'm not exactly sure what it is used for, but I leave mine on. That is the way it is in the photo as well. Hope this helps. Good luck.

EDIT

One thing that has not been discussed is the visibility of the dot itself. The millet is adjustable from 1 to 11. On setting 11 it is bright enough to be seen even if you look at a 100w light bulb. Not that you would want to do that, it's just a demonstration of how visible it is. On the lowest setting it is very usable in low light conditions. It doesn't wash out the rest of the lens. At the indoor range I use I usually set it on 4 or 5. Some of the lesser expensive optics have been criticized for their limited adjustability and the dot not being bright enough for outdoor use. The dot is also very crisp. It is not a blurry blob that has been reported by some of the cheaper sights.

 

[Bill T.]

I hear what you say Hawkeye, ME, I'm kind of a gadget guy. I would like to try it. May work for me, maybe not.

Thanks.

 

[Bill T.]

Red Dot Sight

Boy,

A lot of information here, much appreciated. Thank you ALL.
This goes out to Mustang, (I have one, 87 GT conv.) I plan to take all the info from everyone and check it out and go from there. Your info is just more in the file. I will be back.

Again thank you all, I now go and digest.

Bill T.

 

[Dale53]

Hawkeye;
>>> Take 2 people with equal shooting ability, one
with a Red Dot and one with open sights, the guy
with the open sights will win almost every time.
The reason is the magnified movement of the dot. Don<<<

There are a great number of NRA Bullseye shooters that will debate that with you. Most Red Dot sights do not have ANY magnification, for one thing, the other is you get perfect sight alignment with a Red Dot (everything is in one plane of focus - not THREE).

I don't see ANYONE on our range that would suggest that a a Red Dot Sight is inferior to open sights.

There are many who PREFER open sights, but you are the first I have seen that have had better performance from open sights.

FWIW
Dale53

 

[Bill T.]

Red Dot Sight

Glad you said that Dale. I have in fact heard what Hawkeye said before, I didn't agree but it came from someone that should know. Me I kind of agree with you. That said, like I said before, I'm a gadget kind of guy. I would like to try it and see if it works for me. What will I get, who knows. You see I'm a real senior, 71, not that steady anymore, and the K-22 is quite heavy.

Once again I want to thank all that dropped in and gave me information. VERY MUCH APPRECIATED......

Bill T.

 

[au2183]

Bill,
I have not put a red dot on a K-22 yet, but I do have two rifles with UltraDots on them, a 10" Ruger MKII with a Walther holo sight, and two T/C G2 Contender barrels with BSA holo sights. None of my red dots or holo sights have magnification.
My favorite by far is the Walther. I was very interested in the Burris FastFire II due to the small size and weight, but it sells for $200. I found the Walther at Midway for $139, and it is even smaller and lighter than the Burris, and is very well made. IMO the tube types are just too bulky to put on a handgun, so I find the holo sights much more to my liking.
In any event, the fact that they are not magnified is key. I shoot with both eyes open, which is something I find hard to do with a magnifies scope. That is not a factor when target shooting, but it is for hunting or anywhere that a quick shot is required. Equally important is ease of lining up the sights with the target. To me, that is where a red dot excels. Once sighted in, wherever the red dot lands is where the bullet will impact. Being able to change dot size and intensity for different conditions is important too. A 4 MOA dot covers a 4" circle at 100 yards, so that fact can affect accuracy a lot. For me, a red dot is great to about 50 - 60 yards, but after that a scope or a very fine 1 or 2 MOA dot is required.
Just a few more things to think about. You may want to take a look at the Walther sight at Midway. That will give you another option.
Hope that helps, and good luck!

 

[H Richard]

Glad you mentioned the Walther. I may look at it also. I just got a Burris Fast Fire II. The size of the dot, and the brightness indoors on the one I got were not satisfactory to me. Too dim and too small. I set it up on my 10 meter airgun range, and determined the dot just covered the "X" ring. That's under a 1/4" (at 33 ft.) A 4 MOA dot should cover close to a 1/2" at that difference. The brightness is controlled by a sensor, and in the indoors, it was so dim I almost couldn't find it. I emailed Burris with this information and they advised me to send to them for a replacement. I'll let you know what I think when I get the replacement. I really like the size, and wanting a larger dot (for my 68 yr old eyes to see) for indoor 50' bullseye this winter. What I had did not measure up, and may have been a defective unit.

 

[Bill T.]

Red Dot Sight

Thank you both for the information. I am still checking things out and haven't made any decision as yet but am leaning toward the Millet Scope #RD00006 on a B-Square mount. Midway carries them, BUT the mount is on back order as of now.

Heading out to Cape Cod to a birthday party for our grandson so have to go.............

Catch ya later,

Bill T.