Red Dot vs 1x4 Illuminated Reticle Scope

[BAM-BAM]

I am going to install an optic to help my "old eyes". I will be shooting from 10 to 100 yards (HD and target).

I'm thinking we are not talking "Combat" here;or a less than social visit to "The Sandbox"..... unless we face TEOTWAWKI... or just a mild case of "TS hitting TF".........your Sport will only be deployed against paper and steel... and maybe the odd coyote or other varmint........

If you think you need an optic..... you probably do....... some ones I like;

Bushnell's TRS25 reddot at less than $100 does a great job on my Beretta CX-4 9mm carbine. Being 9mm its a 1-75 yd fun gun that could serve in the role of a home/personal defense gun

I've got a couple versions of Aimpoint's redots..... including their PRO and a Comp-3 that are on AR-15s. These would be my first choice if the SHTF.



As to scopes.... I like 1-4/5x 20 scopes for utility and general purpose rifles:

I have a nice 1-3x20 Weaver on my "utility" rifle; a Ruger 77/357 carbine..... for a .357 it's a great scope out to 100 yds...... for things you want to shoot with a .357 magnum. I also have one on a Ruger "NRA" Mini-14.......not a tack driver it's also a nice low profile general purpose "black rifle" (It sports a Hogue 'Ghillie" green stock) w/ factory 10/20rd magazines. I've read that this Weaver scope is popular in 3 gun competition.....

I also have a couple of 1-4x20 Leupolds on my "Walk in Penn's woods" rifles ...... CZ FS(mannlichers) in .22 magnum and .223. These give me 1X for the heavy woods and rolling terrain of the Allegheny mountains that surround our cabin...... and 4X for longer (100-150yd) shots at varmints.

Finally I have a 1.5-5x20 Leupold on a older Bushmaster AR with a Ace fixed stock... this sees more range time (w/ 10rd P-mags) than other ARs.... and could serve as a "light sniper" rifle if I ever have to deal with TEOTWAWKI or just a Zombie invasion! LOL

Red dots are "faster" and more forgiving...... if when you grab your rifle the dot is turned on.......which is why I prefer aimpoints...... battery life; IIRC 30,000 hrs...... about 3.5-4 years......longer on the newest most expensive models.

A scope on 1x (my standard setting) is a bit slower but if split seconds matter you probably will be looking over the scope;point shooting...........if you've got some range and 1-2 seconds (in reality a second is a loooong time).......IMHO a scope isn't a real handicap...

 

[bodark]

Thanks for all the replies. I have decided to go with the 1-4 power scope. A red dot allows faster acquisition, but I need a little more help at longer ranges. I greatly appreciate your inputs.

 

[Kodiakco]

If your eyes are anything like mine you'll regret a 1-4. Try to save up for a 1-6 or 1-8. You'll be much happier in the long run.

 

[BAM-BAM]

If your eyes are anything like mine you'll regret a 1-4. Try to save up for a 1-6 or 1-8. You'll be much happier in the long run.

I'd love a 1-6 or 1-8....... that exists and doesn't break the bank.......... tell us about them .......please

 

[Kodiakco]

$239.95

http://swfa.com/Falcon-Menace-15-5x30-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P47586.aspx

$269.99

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_1_6X_Scope_with_Patented_ACSS_Reticle_p/paps1-6x.htm

$399.99

http://swfa.com/Leupold-175-6x32-VX-3-Riflescope-P12639.aspx

$599

http://www.trenieroutdoors.com/37466.html

And my personal favorite a 2.5-16

http://swfa.com/Bushnell-25-16x42-Elite-6500-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P10927.aspx

In the 1-8 I don't know of any "cheap" ones.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Kodiakco.......hummmmm... most aren't true 1x (though what is).....guess I'll stick with my 1-4x20 Leupolds and my 1.5-5 x20 Leupold.

Had read awhile back about PA plans for a 1-6....... have you used one? Might be nice on a 15-22.

 

[Kodiakco]

No personal experience with it.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If there is such a thing as a true 1x variable magnified scope I haven't seen evidence of it. I'd like to though.

Here are examples of some high-end 1-4x scopes set on 1x plucked from the Net.

Trijicon TR24

Nightforce 1-4x NXS

Schmidt & Bender Short Dot LE

[

 

[BAM-BAM]

Phil; Thanks, some good pictures .....to me all three look like about 1.3-1.4 X

Have to dig out one of my 1-3 Weavers.....too me they seem more like 1.1-1.2...... set on 1X.... easy and fast to shoot with both eyes open.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Phil; Thanks, some good pictures .....to me all three look like about 1.3-1.4 X

Have to dig out one of my 1-3 Weavers.....too me they seem more like 1.1-1.2...... set on 1X.... easy and fast to shoot with both eyes open.

Right. Any 1-4x will provide the ability to shoot with both eyes open.

The idea with a true 1x is to be able to cowitness with irons, like a 1x red dot. But I haven't seen one that will provide anything better than a fuzzy front sight. Not sure it's possible with a variable magnified scope.

 

[Magload]

How can 1X be called a magnified scope. When I went to school 1X anything was still one. Those pictures are very good and clearly show they are not 1x even using the new math. Don

 

[Rastoff]

No variable power scope can be a true 1x. There will always be some distortion in any optic.

Even at 1x, there will still be an eye relief issue with a variable power scope.

The reason for 1x is not to co-witness. It's to provide faster acquisition at close range. Most variable power scopes won't co-witness anyway because the necessary positioning for proper eye relief will put it over the rear sight. There are some long eye relief scout scopes, but not many.

 

[Kodiakco]

You could also mount a scope and off set a red dot for close targets.

Yes, I shoot left handed.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

And even some 1x red dots are not 1x.

I've got a Burris FF III on a Ruger pistol. When I got it, the image down field through the optic looked distorted to me compared to surrounding it. Found out it was 1.07x.

 

[LeeTN]

You could also mount a scope and off set a red dot for close targets.

Yes, I shoot left handed.

Kodiakco,

How are your optics mounted? From the photo, it looks like the RDS's riser is clamped to the scope's mount . . . or maybe behind it on the rail.

Thanks.

 

[Rastoff]

In thinking about all this, I went out and took a couple of pictures.

This is my Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 set to 1x:

I would like to note that the clarity is very good. The 1x is pretty close to 1x, but not perfect. There is some distortion even though it's not readily noticeable.

So, let's zoom in a little and look at what I found:

If you look closely at the near fence, you can see the distortion. In the center of the scope, the distortion is very little, but as you move toward the edge you can see it has an affect.

This affect is not due to magnification, but collimation. Collimated light is light that has the waves parallel to each other. Because the camera is in the center of the scope, any light that isn't coming directly through the center of the scope is seen at an angle. Because the scope has many lenses in it, each lens has a refraction effect on the light. The refraction effect will be the least at the center of the scope.

This effect is amplified by the proximity of the fence. In this picture, the fence is about 2 meters away. If it were further away, the distortion caused by this refraction affect will be much less noticeable.

So, yes, I completely agree that no 1x will be a true 1x, including fixed 1x red dot optics. However, a quality optic will be so close as to not matter. If a person were to wear a pair of glasses with one clear 1x lens and one lens with the same actual amount of magnification we see in this scope, they might get a head ache after a while. No one would do that and scopes aren't used that way. For all intensive purposes the 1x on a quality variable scope will be 1x and it can be used with two eyes for rapid target acquisition with no degradation in vision.

 

[Magload]

After having eye surgery I wore a reading lens on one side and the distance on the other. Your brain makes up for it and I works fine. It would work to have the lens for your master eye set to focus on the front sight. Sry this wasn't what the OP posted about but reading Rastoff's post above I felt like adding it. BTW nice sight pictures. I envy where you live. Don

 

[Kodiakco]

@LeeTN, the RDS is mounted on a riser and then to a separate QD offset mount. The offset mount sits behind the scope mount.

 

[Rastoff]

BTW nice sight pictures. I envy where you live. Don

Thanks. If it weren't in CA it would be paradise. I envy your gun freedom.

 

[MistWolf]

Aimpoint RDS sights and holosights like the EOTech are NOT 1x optics. They are 0x optics. A 1x optic affects the focal point of the light passing through it. Sights like the Aimpoint or the EOTech do not affect the focal point of the light passing through it any more than a plain pane of glass would.

It's been my experience that for "bad breath" distances involved in house defense shootings, a 1x scope needs to have good quality glass to eliminate distortion. Of the 1x variables I've been able to look through, the one I liked best for my aging eyes was the Leupold Mark 6 1-6x variable. It's also pricey (about $2k at the LGS).

You'll have to weigh the advantages of each type of optic against your needs and budget. I'm fortunate enough that I can still shoot iron sights and 0x RDS optics well enough to score hits out to 600 yards. But when it comes to the day I need a 1x so I can have a clear sight picture, that's what I'll get. I would have that Leupold now, if I could afford it