Reduced power hammer springs no good in NEW S&Ws?

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ColumbusJBR

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My routine when I acquire a new (to me) S&W is to crack it open, clean, lube and, if warranted, ditch the hammer and return springs and swap in a new Wolff reduced power hammer spring and a 16# return spring. Been working great on all my pre-lock guns.

I only own two NEW Smiths. Both 686-6 Plus, one in 5" and one in 6". On both of them I noticed after install the pull is VERY light. Probably too light, I thought. I confirmed at the range with the 6", was getting pretty regular light strikes.

I'm confused because with the same parts all my pre-locks work great, I've only noticed this on the new ones, and have since switched back to factory springs. Is this a known issue, or am I crazy / just have bad luck with the new ones? I understand this is really a nitpick; the trigger pull is "fine" on them from the factory. I just can never help myself and always wanna tinker.

Thanks for any input!
 
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As perhaps an aside---and born of ignorance when it comes to ANY S&W revolver from the mid 1950's onward, let me suggest the use of Jerry Miculek's spring kits for an improved D.A. trigger pull---not only improved, but set wherever you choose----and quickly altered if/when you change your mind at the maximum (if any) cost of a new strain screw.

I was amazed, even dumbfounded at the improvement to be had with my father-law's beater M&P (bought new in 1920, and carried daily in the hip pocket of his overalls for a mere 60+ years).

I don't understand all I know about it---except that IT WORKS!!

Ralph Tremaine

A note of caution: FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS!! I didn't bother with that minor detail the first time around. I mean what possible need is there for me to need instructions to swap out a couple of springs? I got the answer to that question in short order!!
 
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If it's the ribbed mainspring- the standard strain screw may or may not work. You can buy a square butt strain screw and shave it down as necessary. You can see how much longer they are. Grind em down bit by bit - then tighten the screw all the way down like a standard strain screw.
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series guy said:
Replace the strain screw with an Allen set screw from McMaster. Set the D/A trigger pull to 8 1/2 pounds and you will be very happy. The rib in the reduced power spring causes the strain screw to be too short on round butt guns.
Click to expand...

To add to this, I tried the Wolff extended strain screw, which was enough to get my 686 to reliably ignite most domestic primers, but not enough to reliably ignite hard Servicios Aventuras primers in double action. And that's with an Apex extended firing pin as well.

The Wolff extended strain screw's body measured at 9.7 mm vs the stock 8.4 mm. I suspect that another mm of strain screw would probably do it, but I'll probably resort to a set screw with blue loctite.

If it were for serious defensive use, I'd just go back to the stock mainspring so that I woudn't have to worry about ammo selection. A Wolff 15 lb rebound spring and the stock mainspring has my 686's DA pull at 9.65 lbs.
 
Note that the newer revolvers from S&W have shorter and sometimes inadequate firing pins as part of being "drop safe" according to the standards of certain states. I am about as mechanical as a rock, but it would not surprise me if the combination of a lighter string set with that firing pin will present problems on occasion.
 
I just picked up a few 8-32 set screws from the hardware store. I'll mess with it tomorrow and report back. Got a lot of football and baseball to watch now.

Thanks for the advice!
 
ColumbusJBR said:
I just picked up a few 8-32 set screws from the hardware store. I'll mess with it tomorrow and report back. Got a lot of football and baseball to watch now.

Thanks for the advice!
Click to expand...

Quick update: the 8-32 x 1/2" set screws worked brilliantly. I'm gonna buy a pack of them to keep on hand w/ my other small parts in the Ol' S&W bin. Thank you for the advice! I love this forum.
 
I have been putting the next power below factory trigger return springs in Smith revolvers in the past. The lighter ones do not return the trigger very fast in DA mode for me. I tried some ribbed mainsprings once and discarded them for factory before long. I found some factory springs that gave a better pull by swapping them around. If you use one, make sure there is no push-off in SA mode! I had a Wolff coil mainspring in a 640 because the pull seemed kinda heavy. This helped but the last time I took it to a range I started getting light strikes and immediately put the factory mainspring back in it. None of my guns are strictly just target or hunting so they need to work with no doubts.
 
I've personally settled on the 16# return springs from Wolff. It's just a bit lighter without sacrificing a solid return. Bought 2 ten packs as I know how those puppies like to fly out and dissolve into the garage floor lol.

Also bulk bought the Wolff reduced power and standard power springs just to have and not need to wait around once I get my "next" S&W. I've come to terms that this addiction isn't going anywhere :D With the helpful tip on new set screws, here's hoping that future-proofs me for a while. Thanks again to all for the tips!
 
My usual tune up on S&W revolvers is to replace the rebound spring with a 11-12 pound spring - I never cut the original. I leave in the factory main spring but I do tune the strain screw to desired length. Normally I do not alter the original strain screw, I use one of the dozens that I have in stock. This way all I ever need to do to return said revolver back to stock is to replace the rebound spring and strain screw with the originals. The original is never messed with.

This procedure works quite well for me. It lightens the pull to where I like it and it is 100% reliable with good solid hits. The last thing I want is a smooth revolver that is not reliable! BTW, the original parts always are kept in the original box and labeled as such - never any confusion. Any revolver I sell (a rarity) gets put back to factory spec's before I ship it. Never want the liability of after market parts and mods!
 
ColumbusJBR said:
I've personally settled on the 16# return springs from Wolff. It's just a bit lighter without sacrificing a solid return. Bought 2 ten packs as I know how those puppies like to fly out and dissolve into the garage floor lol.

Also bulk bought the Wolff reduced power and standard power springs just to have and not need to wait around once I get my "next" S&W. I've come to terms that this addiction isn't going anywhere :D With the helpful tip on new set screws, here's hoping that future-proofs me for a while. Thanks again to all for the tips!
Click to expand...

If you use the set screws, make sure you use blue 242 (medum strength) or purple 222 (low strength) Loctite on them. This makes them adjustable, but stay where you put them. Without it, the screws will gradually walk out as the mainspring flexes. Use enough Loctite to coat the male and female threads, then mop up any excess with a Q tip or rag. The screws with a patch on them are a one time deal, and any adjustments quickly rub off the patch. I drill an access hole in the grips to quickly make any tweaks needed.
 
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There once was a time when I dabbled with reduced power rebound slide springs. The previous revolver armorer liked to (judiciously) use them. I tried a pack of 3 lighter-than-factory springs when I got my first Airweight. I found the lightest of them resulted in frequent failures for the trigger to recover. The medium one resulted in occasional failures to recover. This was an off-duty weapon, so any failures-to-recover were a No Go. ;) The heaviest of the reduced power springs gave me consistently reliable trigger recovery, so it got the nod.

However, fast forward to a couple months later, and the reawakening of my dusty DA revolver skills (after having gone from duty revolvers to duty pistols for several years), and having invested a lot of range hours and trigger time burning through a couple cases of ammo ...

One day I was running a fast drill and discovered my trigger finger was 'outrunning' the trigger recovery. :eek: Well, hell, that's not good.

The factory rebound slide spring promptly went back in the 642, and the trigger recovery was quick, brisk and firm ... and my finger couldn't outrun it. :) It's remained that way ever since, as have the second 642 I bought, my pair or M&P 340's and my neat little 37DAO. My other (steel) J's have always had the stock springs in them too. That was the consequence of having to drill and qualify running duty revolvers for several years,,with the emphasis being on fast and accurate DA trigger work.

That's what works for me, and I no longer have to worry about what others do with their wheelguns. :cool:
 
I was also outrunning the trigger with the lower power (13#ish) return springs. The 16#, for me, is the lightest that I can't outrun.

Also, thx for the tip on loctite. Been working on guns long enough that there's never a tube (blue) too far away.
 
Years ago, I took a "tuned" 686 (CS-1 overrun) out to the range to practice for an upcoming wintertime IDPAish match at Ft. Benning. It was below freezing early in the AM and I had many failures to fire. Later on in the day when it got into the 40's it ran fine. Minimal oil (mostly likely CLP back then), nothing odd going on in the action, it was just too lightly sprung for the conditions. After a few more tests under the same conditions that winter, it got slightly beefier springs, which didn't seem to hurt scores/times at all. That revolver doesn't get exercised near as much 20+ years later, but it is still a favorite and has the same (heavier) springs. Don't ask me specifics, those notes are well buried...
 
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A D.A. trigger pull of 7 lbs. is the absolute minimum to ignite Federal ammo/primers-----and "iffy" with any others. He (above) who noted setting the trigger pull at 8 1/2 lbs. knows whereof he speaks! It works!

Been there----done that!!

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, it helps to have a GOOD trigger pull gauge----no bargain basement equipment allowed!
 
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