That's good to know! Now I can stop wondering. I moved to Oklahoma City and shoot S&W revolvers. BTW, this is the kid that was always eating paste.
Regulating fixed sight revolvers?
- Thread starter sjmjax
- Start date
I can attest to this! Back around 1970, or so, I bought a new 5 inch model 27. It was a really nice gun, but rotating the cylinder would get harder for a couple of chambers and then with less resistance for the rest. At that time our department pistol team, me as a part, would attend the PPC National matches at the Mississippi Highway Patrol Academy and range. S&W would send a couple of their guys to work on guns brought by the competitors, so I took my brand new gun into their end of the trailer, (Colt had the other end, all alone most of the time). The small room was full of folks and these two Smith guys were working away and chatting with all those waiting to have their guns worked on. When my gun came up, this chap checked it a minute, held it muzzle up and whacked it about three times on the front of the cylinder, checked the turn and handed it back to me, completely fixed. I had nearly fainted when he started whacking my gun with that round babbit bar!!!
It was amazing to watch those guys work and carry on a conversation with hardly looking at the gun they were working on. Their hands knew what they were doing!!
Yendor357
Member
Leave those nice old revolvers alone. There’s a high probability that you’ll diminish their value if you go all Buba on them. There’s likely a modern equivalent with an adjustable rear sight. Shoot those. Look at the antiques.
Fixed sight autos aren’t so bad because rear sights are driftable for windage, file on the rear sight if you’re lucky enough to get one that shoots high.
Like you, I can’t stand a gun that doesn’t shoot where it looks. I quit buying fixed sight autos. And as dumb as I am, Ive always had the good sense to never buy a fixed sight revolver. Every revolver that currently own, has a rear sight that is slightly right of center.
I vividly remember an old photo of Elmer Keith shooting a 4 inch 29 one handed, and the gun twisting several degrees counterclockwise. I always figured that was the result of a big 250 429421 going down the right hand twist rifling.
Fixed sight autos aren’t so bad because rear sights are driftable for windage, file on the rear sight if you’re lucky enough to get one that shoots high.
Like you, I can’t stand a gun that doesn’t shoot where it looks. I quit buying fixed sight autos. And as dumb as I am, Ive always had the good sense to never buy a fixed sight revolver. Every revolver that currently own, has a rear sight that is slightly right of center.
I vividly remember an old photo of Elmer Keith shooting a 4 inch 29 one handed, and the gun twisting several degrees counterclockwise. I always figured that was the result of a big 250 429421 going down the right hand twist rifling.
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Protocall_Design
Member
That explains that! Whenever you have an opinion about something, you always seem to stick to your guns!
A pinned S&W revolver barrel will turn several degrees in either direction with the pin in without the barrel binding on the pin. The barrel's slot for the pin is "roomy"
I assure you of this because a barrel that does not torque up or on that has had material removed from rear shoulder to adjust gap will turn about 5 degrees by hand in either direction with the pin in
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Pisgah
Member
I know you don't want to hear it, but the statement that it shoots the same distance off at 7 and 15 yards suggests at least the possibility of a shooter-induced situation.
Yep, if it was sight regulation issue, bullet impact would be even further off at longer distances.
Sight picture and trigger pull are primary. Sight adjustments will not make up for a lack of either
Protocall_Design
Member
He already had good results with 4 other guns, and only 2 out of 6 were off. I think turning the barrel slightly by a known amount is better workmanship than randomly bashing it with a lead bar, with no way to gauge one's "progress".
If one were to use an arbor press instead of a rabbit bar I believe you could gauge progress
Protocall_Design
Member
It seems to me you would end up bending the frame and/or barrel with babbit or arbor press.
I could have phrased that better. I did not want to write a novel. Yes, the error does increase with distance.
I don’t want to sound rude but I own about 100+ S&W pre-lock revolvers and about half that many Colts.
Been shooting recreationally and competitively for a bit over 50 years. Yeah, I have bad days occasionally. But, I’m pretty aware of whether I’m off or my revolver or ammo is problematic.
As I mentioned in the original post, this was a test of six very similar revolvers using exactly the same ammo and techniques. Test was repeated multiple times with identical results for each firearm.
Sometime, probably this weekend, I’ll strip those two to frame & barrel, set up my fixtures and adjust them the way the manufacturer would have.
I’ll report the results.
Yes, but only a little bit. If you have a 4" barrel you would have a sight radius of about 6" Tweaking the front of the frame face just .0001 would move the muzzle over about 4/.75x.0001 as width of barrel shoulder into length of barrel for .00053. In 1 ft that would be .0016 in 10 ft .016 and at 100ft (33yds) .16". The cylinder is still going to line up with the barrel as your changing the angle a bit and the front of the cylinder is connected to the front of the frame via the yoke. You would probably get a bit of increase of B/C gap on one side and a bit of decrease on the other
So to get 1'' at 30 yds you would need to tweak the frame face about .0007
I have a threaded piece of material that threads into an N frame where the barrel goes, it has a .452 hole in the center. I can use a .452 pin gauge to see how well a 45 cylinder chamber lines up with the cylinder engaged. I have yet to find a 45 cylinder where all the chambers line up perfectly. I made and shaft with a .430 front piece and a .452 rear. Same thing for 44 mag and special cylinders. You can adjust them some by peening the stop notch a bit and messing with the stop, but with factory guns and cylinders you won't find any with all the chambers that line up dead on. It works range rods because you have several thousand for the lands, slop in the stop and notches. That is why they have forcing cones
Did I mention I am working on my version of a PPC gun in 45 acp
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Protocall_Design
Member
The OP stated that he was left by about a hand's width at 7 and 15 yards. If we split the difference and call it 11 yards, that would be easily done by turning the barrel, but would take a lot of bending to get the same amount. My hand is around 3.5 inches wide. Assuming a 4" barrel (6" sight radius), the front sight needs to move .053 to line up the POA with the POI. That seems like a lot of whacking or bending to me.
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