Reliability of new versus older Model 41
- Thread starter oddball66
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boatbum101
Member
M 41's are tuned to function with CCI Standard Velocity ammo . I've had 2 both 5 1/2" HB . One a 1984 model was fine with reasonable SV ammo . The other a 1998 model was a royal PITA . Barrel keyholed @ 50yds , trigger was rough & was an alibi waiting to happen . Alex Hamilton of Ten Ring Precision relined the barrel for me . Now holds the X ring @ 50yds . Dave Salyer reworked trigger , extractor , cut 2 coils off main / hammer spring & installed a 6lb recoil spring . It now functions & shoots beautifully . It likes cheap Aguila SV ammo . Will put 10 shots in 3/4" @ 50yds . S&W was unable / unwilling to fix it . Thank God for the 2 gents mentioned above . Older one worked just fine with CCI SV & still does . It does NOT like the weaker Aguila or Euro ammo . 41's to me are luck of the draw . Funny as I shot High Standards for years w/o any problems except having to adjust mags . As with most things in life YMMV .
Andy
Andy
Yeah, looking around in cyberspace, it sounds like a subpar Model 41 of any age can make its way into circulation. And you're right, such as life, the firearms world is no exception. But the one thing that seems fairly consistent is that CCI Standard Velocity is the prevailing round for reliability and accuracy.
My wife and I haven't done bullseye shooting in 25 years but we now use our vintage 41's for 22 steel plate matches. We use only Federal bulk high velocity and for the most part malfunctions only occur when Federal forgets to put priming compound in the case. I have only recently changed the recoil springs but all our magazines are original. High velocity may not be good for these guns but that is just not near the top of my worry list. 41's are great guns!
The posts have been lost in a forum re-do here, but I told the story of my 1969 vintage M41 that I had bought new, and CCI high velocity ammo from a couple of years ago.
Partway through a magazine on a range day, I had the original, very nice grips both blown off in pieces, and the bottom of the magazine was blown wide open. I was standing there holding bits of a very nice 41 in my hands. I was lucky to come away with only a stinging hand and all my fingers still attached.
After removing the barrel for inspection at the range desk, we decided to send the whole lot to CCI, the pistol and the remainder of the box of ammo.
It turned out that the case had separated right at the rim, and most of the energy had been directed downward into the magazine and grip area. The head of the case was firmly stuck to the face of the bolt when they inspected it. The very nice gentleman at CCI donated the grips off his own 41 as replacements, and replaced the magazine with a newer one. The rest of the gun survived intact.
A week or so later, a large case of CCI standard velocity arrived at the house, courtesy of CCI.
I knew better than to shoot hi velocity rounds in my M41, but I let the range operator sell me the couple of boxes of hi velocity because that's all they had at the time. There's nothing to say that this wasn't just a fluke, but there is no way anything but standard velocity will every get used in that gun again. S&W recommends only standard velocity - maybe they do know best.
Partway through a magazine on a range day, I had the original, very nice grips both blown off in pieces, and the bottom of the magazine was blown wide open. I was standing there holding bits of a very nice 41 in my hands. I was lucky to come away with only a stinging hand and all my fingers still attached.
After removing the barrel for inspection at the range desk, we decided to send the whole lot to CCI, the pistol and the remainder of the box of ammo.
It turned out that the case had separated right at the rim, and most of the energy had been directed downward into the magazine and grip area. The head of the case was firmly stuck to the face of the bolt when they inspected it. The very nice gentleman at CCI donated the grips off his own 41 as replacements, and replaced the magazine with a newer one. The rest of the gun survived intact.
A week or so later, a large case of CCI standard velocity arrived at the house, courtesy of CCI.
I knew better than to shoot hi velocity rounds in my M41, but I let the range operator sell me the couple of boxes of hi velocity because that's all they had at the time. There's nothing to say that this wasn't just a fluke, but there is no way anything but standard velocity will every get used in that gun again. S&W recommends only standard velocity - maybe they do know best.
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paddingtonbear
Member
M41 Reliability - Dave Salyer reworked trigger , extractor
Oddball66, my experience says buy an older model. My 2007 NIB, after two trips back to S&W, remains relegated as a single shot. Just won't extract any velocity or brand. Boatbum101 sent a PM regarding contact infor on Dave Salyer.
Oddball66, my experience says buy an older model. My 2007 NIB, after two trips back to S&W, remains relegated as a single shot. Just won't extract any velocity or brand. Boatbum101 sent a PM regarding contact infor on Dave Salyer.
Boatbum--I still shoot High Standards!
FYI to all--Dont hate me guys, but I don't shoot 41's, but 4 of the guys and a gal at my bullseye league have them. Two use them and 3 do not--the three that do not have jam issues with them causing alibi's so do not use them in league. 2 are older and one is newer. Of the two that do use them, they are newer guns and sometimes jam--but they learned they have to keep them VERY clean or they act up--such as a good cleaning after every 200 rounds or so. (Your results may vary)
As others say, I think it is luck of the draw.
Reasons I use my HS guns--never jam once you get the mags adjusted, easy to clean every 300 rounds or so, and keep a good recoil spring in them.
If the 41 was as reliable as my Smith 52-2 centerfire or High Standards, I'd own a 41.
boatbum101
Member
My younger brother has my Hamden 107 Citation now on indefinate loan . I now shoot a Marvel conversion & 41 is my backup gun . To me if you setup your 1911 lower like your 45 wadgun you only have 1 trigger / grip to deal with . It also helps with your 45 shooting . Unless you get a Euro 22 you can't have a " roll trigger " on either a 41 or a High Standard . As with most US pistols the 41 & H-S have a " crisp " trigger . Of the 2 the H-S trigger is vastly superior to the 41's . As the Marvel uses a 1911 lower you can have whatever trigger you'd like . For me it's easier to have better control with a " roll trigger " .
Andy
Andy
I have owned both older short barrel versions (i.e., 60s) and two newer (one short and one long barrel) versions (i.e., 80s). I sold the older versions because of having to place two children through college. I shot bullseye for years and the only thing I had to do was change the recoil spring on the long barrel to get some ammo to cycle.
The one thing I like about the 41 is the easy disassembly. Just pull the trigger guard and it is open for inspection or cleaning (even at a match). The triggers on all of mine are wonderful. I have not had any problems with jamming. A few old timers who shot with me told me not to clean them until cycling problems occur and to always place a drop of gun oil on the slide before shooting (which I do).
The rear sights on some of the older models are better than the newer models.
I still shoot it in ISSF rimfire matches. There are a lot of other brands at these matches, but if one can't hold the ten ring then even a $3,000 gun will not help.
The one thing I like about the 41 is the easy disassembly. Just pull the trigger guard and it is open for inspection or cleaning (even at a match). The triggers on all of mine are wonderful. I have not had any problems with jamming. A few old timers who shot with me told me not to clean them until cycling problems occur and to always place a drop of gun oil on the slide before shooting (which I do).
The rear sights on some of the older models are better than the newer models.
I still shoot it in ISSF rimfire matches. There are a lot of other brands at these matches, but if one can't hold the ten ring then even a $3,000 gun will not help.
Papazee
Member
I have both a 1979 and a 1970 mod.41 The 1979 has a Clark
barrel and my 1970 still has it's heavy 5" either one will shoot
all day with any of the six mags. Wasn't always so, one of the mags was causing FTF's till I polished it a little. My friend has
a newer M41 2000 something and he gets stovepipes and FTF's
but I polished his mag and now it's only stovepipes but he
uses HV ammo. He tells me that the newer ones are good for
HV but I'm not convinced.
Papazee
barrel and my 1970 still has it's heavy 5" either one will shoot
all day with any of the six mags. Wasn't always so, one of the mags was causing FTF's till I polished it a little. My friend has
a newer M41 2000 something and he gets stovepipes and FTF's
but I polished his mag and now it's only stovepipes but he
uses HV ammo. He tells me that the newer ones are good for
HV but I'm not convinced.
Papazee
